Council 26 Message - Unpublished
04-26-2021, 10:16 AM
#151
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by pinseeker
FastBurner, I don't think that our current plan is in any danger of being taken over by the PBGC. I also don't think that just because a plan is frozen, that it gets taken over either.
One of my concerns with the PSPP is that the PBGC only covers qualified plans. As far as my research has shown, an employee can only have one qualified plan. The document that I linked mentioned that most frozen plans are rolled into another qualified plan. The MEC/NC has stated that the PSPP would be a separate plan from the current FAE plan. Our current plan would not be rolled into the new plan. They would be two separate plans.
You seem to be very knowledgeable about this, so maybe you can answer the question that the NC and R&I guys won't/can't answer. If, as the NC and R&I say, our current DB plan would be a separate plan from the PSPP plan, which plan would be covered by the PBGC? Both the NC and R&I agree that the PBGC will only cover one qualified plan for an employee group and if this gets railroaded through as our openers, which plan would be covered? Or, is it incorrect that the PBGC will only cover one qualified plan? If so, then why hasn't FedEx created different plans for the other employee groups when they froze the benefits of the DB plan for them. If they have different plans, shouldn't there be a different EIN for each qualified plan?
One of my concerns with the PSPP is that the PBGC only covers qualified plans. As far as my research has shown, an employee can only have one qualified plan. The document that I linked mentioned that most frozen plans are rolled into another qualified plan. The MEC/NC has stated that the PSPP would be a separate plan from the current FAE plan. Our current plan would not be rolled into the new plan. They would be two separate plans.
You seem to be very knowledgeable about this, so maybe you can answer the question that the NC and R&I guys won't/can't answer. If, as the NC and R&I say, our current DB plan would be a separate plan from the PSPP plan, which plan would be covered by the PBGC? Both the NC and R&I agree that the PBGC will only cover one qualified plan for an employee group and if this gets railroaded through as our openers, which plan would be covered? Or, is it incorrect that the PBGC will only cover one qualified plan? If so, then why hasn't FedEx created different plans for the other employee groups when they froze the benefits of the DB plan for them. If they have different plans, shouldn't there be a different EIN for each qualified plan?
- Employer can “roll” all the assets together in one large fund (what we have), but if one defined benefit is terminated and a new one begins (even in same “plan” or EIN), then
—- employer pays an employee premium flat rate for all employees for both plans (so $86 X 5300 = 455,800 X 2 (PSPP and A plan) = 911,600 for 2021).
—- employer pays a variable premium based on amount of unfunded vested benefits for both plans (finding out this number variable plan may be less, but as in the wise words of the Senior Rep I spoke with “variable benefits of any type May pay less than promised benefit.” These variable plans may have less funding requirements resulting in less premium.
—- the company can have all sorts of “plans” with different payouts for different personnel groups.
So, both are qualified plans, both require premiums.
04-26-2021, 08:06 PM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by Tuck
Self-help? When was the last time a major was released by the NMB? How much of the economy does Fedex impact today and what's the purpose of the RLA? It's to keep the freight moving. I find it very, very unlikely that we will be released...ever..even with a 2-1 NMB in our favor politically and a union friendly president. You need to go into this with eyes wide open. Doesn't mean you can't still negotiate with a lot of strength - I just wouldn't hold your breath for self-help. Take a look at the RLA history on this. And there are other things of concern. Who can forget the court ordering spirit pilots back to work when they refused extra flights while in status quo. I may be getting this one mixed up with Delta but the airline's argument was that status quo means what pilots had traditionally done - so if you always taxied with no delays, then that's status quo. If you always flew BLG + 20% or recently maybe BLG + 40% - that's status quo and the judge ordered pilots to actually pick up extra trips. So it's going to be an uphill battle either way. We should be going into this eyes wide open - not with a defeatist attitude at all but eyes wide open. Else we'll end up like APA in the wilderness for something like 5 years and 200 grievances and no contract.
04-26-2021, 08:30 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by olly
I was at UAL during negotiations in 1999 for our big Contract 2000. As I recall a simplistic version of documented history, After getting jerked around, USAirways merger, and headed to NMB, 10,000 pilots pretty much worked "just" their schedule- We had a contract within weeks.
04-26-2021, 09:36 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by Tuck
Thank you for making my point for me - 22 years ago with a very labor friendly company run by a carpet bagger in different times with a ton of passenger airlines and labor in general had a lot more power. Hope you realize that.
The culture at Fedex is "how is this good for me?" and "what will management give us?". These two sentiments self limit what is achievable. Solidarity demands that you care about the concerns of others that you do not share.
04-27-2021, 12:54 PM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by olly
I was at UAL during negotiations in 1999 for our big Contract 2000. As I recall a simplistic version of documented history, After getting jerked around, USAirways merger, and headed to NMB, 10,000 pilots pretty much worked "just" their schedule- We had a contract within weeks.
05-02-2021, 09:10 AM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,273
Originally Posted by olly
I was at UAL during negotiations in 1999 for our big Contract 2000. As I recall a simplistic version of documented history, After getting jerked around, USAirways merger, and headed to NMB, 10,000 pilots pretty much worked "just" their schedule- We had a contract within weeks.
Also, KD famously said "you got your contract... good luck keeping it."
05-03-2021, 07:54 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by Shaman
Respectfully, Labor had more power 22 years ago because half the population of this country didn't believe that corporations are people and that fealty to the "job creators" was a necessary component of employment.
The culture at Fedex is "how is this good for me?" and "what will management give us?". These two sentiments self limit what is achievable. Solidarity demands that you care about the concerns of others that you do not share.
The culture at Fedex is "how is this good for me?" and "what will management give us?". These two sentiments self limit what is achievable. Solidarity demands that you care about the concerns of others that you do not share.
Respectfully,
Labor still has a great deal of power.
Labor operating under the RLA is greatly constrained. Even more so due to the consolidation of airlines. The big 6-7 of 22 years ago is now the big 4.
And for the Cargo Industry, it's the Big 2. Consider the simple fact that the Cargo Carve out occurred at the Whitehouse level in a Labor "friendly" administration.
Whether I like it or not, our company is considered a proxy for the US Economy.
The idea that we're going to go into self-help in 2022/23 if we haven't reached an agreement is ludicrous to me, and contrary to how the recent mediations for both UPS and FedEx have played out.
Mediators decide whether Labor and Management are making any progress towards a TA. The longest mediation I can recall in recent history was 5+ years, and that was for a Regional Airline.
5+ years would be just fine with me to achieve our goals.
05-03-2021, 07:58 AM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by FastBurner
Straight from PBGC this morning, took a couple weeks.
- Employer can “roll” all the assets together in one large fund (what we have), but if one defined benefit is terminated and a new one begins (even in same “plan” or EIN), then
—- employer pays an employee premium flat rate for all employees for both plans (so $86 X 5300 = 455,800 X 2 (PSPP and A plan) = 911,600 for 2021).
—- employer pays a variable premium based on amount of unfunded vested benefits for both plans (finding out this number variable plan may be less, but as in the wise words of the Senior Rep I spoke with “variable benefits of any type May pay less than promised benefit.” These variable plans may have less funding requirements resulting in less premium.
—- the company can have all sorts of “plans” with different payouts for different personnel groups.
So, both are qualified plans, both require premiums.
- Employer can “roll” all the assets together in one large fund (what we have), but if one defined benefit is terminated and a new one begins (even in same “plan” or EIN), then
—- employer pays an employee premium flat rate for all employees for both plans (so $86 X 5300 = 455,800 X 2 (PSPP and A plan) = 911,600 for 2021).
—- employer pays a variable premium based on amount of unfunded vested benefits for both plans (finding out this number variable plan may be less, but as in the wise words of the Senior Rep I spoke with “variable benefits of any type May pay less than promised benefit.” These variable plans may have less funding requirements resulting in less premium.
—- the company can have all sorts of “plans” with different payouts for different personnel groups.
So, both are qualified plans, both require premiums.
Last 5500 had it at 130k+
And FedEx certainly seemed willing to double up the premium to transition from the Traditional Pension Plan to the Portable Pension Plan.
What was surprising to me as I reviewed the most recent filing was the Average Salary covered by people in various demographics. "We" seem to have very little impact on the average salary.
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