CloudSailor

Exactly! Any and all concessions affect 100% of the crewforce. It might affect you indirectly depending on your seat and seniority, but a concession will ripple through the system and degrade your QOL.

If BPT Pay were to go away or bidding those lines were restricted in any way, we will ALL feel the pain. Not just the senior FO's who are bidding for those sweet deals. Obviously hoping this rumor is completely false (although the way the NC avoids answering the question directly is cause for concern).

What is likely happening is that the NC is already exhausted, physically and emotionally. They are ready for the pain of the marathon to stop and are just looking for the "Finisher" shirt instead of looking to get on the fking podium. To that end, the Sales Job for the TA will have to involve hiding or minimizing/downplaying concessions. Something you will hear from other pilots, and even the NC is: "those sweet lines are only for the super senior FO's, so it really won't affect you to lose XYZ in our CBA." WRONG! All those super senior FOs who have stayed in those seats for this specific reason, will be bidding out to a seat that will affect you, and me - all of us. The same applies to any other concessions, don't fall for the "it won't affect you and I" BS.

Don't be distracted by the Payrates! QOL is what will keep us alive and healthy to enjoy the buck$ we have made. Without QOL, all that extra $ will mean nothing - you'll be too fatigued or dead too early to enjoy it.

DLax85

And if they bid out, another group will become senior --- and they will bid whatever is best. It's how we grind thru the seniority system. Reducing any sweet lines affects EVERYONE. Both FOs and Captains. Less hard lines to bid = Less QOL for everyone, and the most affected will be junior guys in BOTH seats.

How do you boil a frog to death? ....slowly!
Ribbit, Ribbit

In Unity,
DLax

CloudSailor

yep, that's been happening at our airline.

Forget the words Quality Of. A concession is us exchanging our Life for Pay.

I would take a concession in not having the absolute highest Payrates of the industry (but still in the top 3 for the flying we endure), in order to have the absolute best QOL CBA of all the airlines. I said so much during the union surveys. Just as we have and protect our vacation because of its value to our Life, same should apply to improving Reserve, improving the Sub system, much higher penalties to the company for revisions, improving our protections from forced extensions, etc... Scope of course coming before all of that.

The Company is squeezing so hard already, I cannot imagine if we give them yet more openings to optimize our a$$es into the ground.

Ribbit

StarClipper

Sounds like you’re willing to settle. I personally will not vote for a TA with lower pay than any of the other carriers or a TA with any form of concession. If AA or UA signs with higher pay rates, theirs will be my new line. Until then

#NO CONCESSIONS! DELTA+

threeighteen

Having the best QOL automatically means highest pay even if the actual rate is $3/hr less. QOL and work-rules is where you make the real money in this industry.

Having the highest pay rate but no QOL/work rules means you’re always gonna be on straight pay and yeah your hourly number is the highest but your W-2 will be 6 figures less than the bros who understand the value of work rules and QOL.

don’t be a fool.

Our pay rates should absolutely be the highest, but QOL and work rules needs to be the biggest priority of any negotiation.

StarClipper

Totally agree however the notion that it should be either or, must go away. We’ve earned both

CloudSailor

Exactly 318.

Just like us having given up 7CH per day down to 6CH per day . How many more weeks of pay did that equate to at the end of the year for a large percentage of our lines? Our payrates could have been lower by comparison but at the end of the day how much do you take home per day of your life given to the company. QOL is what is always in our best interest for long term health while doing this type of flying, and the ability to enjoy the $ we have earned.

Let's not be distracted by the possible Sales Job of look, look, the shiniest Payrates in the industry, while the Company once again reaches into our back pocket to extract further 'efficiencies' from us.

threeighteen

True that.

​​​​​​​
That's exactly my biggest fear. Big shiny pay rate, nice retirement, but we lose even more of our work rules/QOL, and we don't fix anything in section 25.

CloudSailor

No, not willing to settle.

Hypothetically, if our true pay at the end of the year was higher because of improvement to QOL items and how you use them to efficiently gain the most per day, while at the same time the actual payrate number was not the highest, I would not consider that settling for less. That's what I mean.

Let's say BPT Pay, as rumored, instead puts those pilots in SUB for those bumped trips. To those pilots, the highest Payrates in the industry by even say 20% would be meaningless. Their QOL would be destroyed.

Look, at the end of the day I'm with you. NO Concessions. ZERO.

And I have a not-so-positive feeling already of how I will be voting after I read the future TA. I am ready to send it back to our union, for a new NC to go back to the table. I can comfortably wait at current rates for the entire TA to be industry leading, as we have earned.

opt0712

Please stop with this. This rumor has been addressed at the last NC meeting at AOC. Not to mention, speaking personally with union reps at AOC over the past month have verified this is a false rumor. Stay United and reach out to your reps.