Would it have made you feel better if I had said effective 1 January 2016 instead of starting? The point is that Delta got paid for the entirety of 2016 at the higher rate.

In January 2016, United agreed to a $301/hour rate starting February 2016. So it was three months higher than United. Feel better?

Even worse, in July 2015, Delta turned down a TA that had their highest rate starting January 2016 of $292/hour and yet we accepted $287 after that. And what did Delta end up doing instead? Not to mention that those 11 months in 2016 not only eventually paid higher, they counted toward the next amendable date.

The part of my post that you left out or ignored was that if we had considered giving up the A plan for new hires as the company wanted, we could have done better as others here are arguing for now.

 

The point is that you are trying to portray a narrative rather than dealing with the honest history. Just state what happened. Don’t try to make it look a certain way.

They weren’t hammering us on rates. Even in 2017, their 764 rate was $312. Ours was $304, which they patterned off us a year later. Their top rate of $330 applied to all of 32 planes - 18 777’s and 14 747’s. Maybe an A350 for a total of 300 Captains on top pay. Our 777 CA’s were getting BKO that put us ahead on pay.

The black and white picture you paint just doesn’t exist.

 

I'm not trying to portray any narrative. I am stating what happened. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I am trying to make it look a certain way.



Did I say they were hammering us? No, those are your words, not mine. Yes, in 2017, their 764 rate (an aircraft we don't fly) was $312. And yes, in November of 2017 our WB rate was $304. So, what was our rate for the other 10 months of 2017? It was $295. So who is trying to portray a narrative here? You also fail to mention that Delta had 11 pay bands in that contract while we only have 2. So, where is you proof that Delta patterned their 764 rates off of our 763 rates? Are you sure they didn't pattern off of United which had their contract in February 2016 and had higher rates than us?

You mention that we get BKO, and that put us ahead on pay. Are you sure about that? Do you even know how BKO works and what is included in the BLG and what isn't? You also forget to mention that Delta got profit sharing and cash over cap. I know, it's part of a narrative.




I am providing the actual numbers for anyone to make up their own mind. I am not sure why it is so important to you that we were the highest paid or for how long. Maybe you were part of the 53% that voted for contract 2015. Maybe your self worth is tied to it, I don't know. Either way, you can interpret whatever you want from the numbers. However, that doesn't change the fact that Delta turned down a TA in July 2015 that had higher rates than our November 2015 contract. It doesn't change the fact the in February 2016, United passed our rates. It doesn't change the fact that the contract that Delta ratified in December 2016 had even higher rates that went into effect in January 2016.

 

You guys realize you are arguing about bankruptcy and lost decade rates right? The industry has moved past these rates and are making their way to pre bankruptcy rates. Are we going to follow the industry, or continue the FedEx way it was pre 9/11 with 20% below industry. Oh, and back then they all had pensions and no PBS, so that’s not an excuse for why we accepted less then or should now. Our pay raises since then have merely been inflationary, with many concessions.

 

You don’t get it. It’s pattern bargaining. You’re constantly going on about how delta and those guys passed us like it’ll always be that way. Of course, they did! It’s the cycle of union bargaining. Every contract WE’VE had for a generation has had rates higher than the industry leader. Even when we’ve had better vacation, traditional bidding, BKO, etc. We didn’t have to horse trade to level up. We just raised the bar. It’s just timing.

But you get so lost in the weeds with meaningless details, you miss the majors. Do you actually want to spend negotiating capital on change our amendable date so we don’t get beat ten months out of the year on rates? Who gives a flying flip?

We had leading rates on our last contract. Same in Bridge 2011. Same in 2006. Get over it.

 

This and well said!

Does the company take concessions when they raise the price of their services due to inflation? They do not, they give the exact or lesser level of service at a higher inflation adjusted price. We need to adopt a same mentality. The price of labor goes up with inflation, it does not mean we need to trade any negotiating capital for that inflationary adjustment.

A pay rate increase to match inflation for concessions is not a pay rate increase.

 

I just need to clarify. FedEx pilots have never negotiated a better than inflationary pay rate. And historically they have always given concessions for those pay rates. During the time that FedEx’s inflationary pay raises took them to the top of the industry (due to bankruptcies) a lot of folks got hard ons, including management. Then they hired 50%+1 during that time. They tried their best to remove billions from their books by paying off the most senior before the most junior had a vote.

Something that would have been respectable, would have been trying to improve the industry at any point in the history of the most successful airline on planet earth, especially once everyone else got kicked in the teeth. But here we are, with many grenade throwers worried about their retirement.

But don’t worry. We know it wasn’t a battle you were willing to fight for us (that is more than clear), or the industry (or your friends), just show them your W2 right. It’s very hard to teach a spouse not to beat. But don’t worry, they will learn how much it hurts.

 

Oh I get it, your identity and self worth are tied up in this story you want to tell yourself. If you would actually read the posts leading up to my original post, you would see that others were saying that we need to give up on raising the pension in order to get pay rates. I disagree.

So, every contract WE'VE had for a generation has had rates higher than the industry leader? Well, considering this is the first contract you have ever had a chance to vote on at Fedex, I don't know how you can claim to be an expert on the history. In 1999, Delta had a top rate of $250/hour. Our 1999 contract had a top rate starting in June 1999 of $183. In 2001, Delta ratified a new contract with a top rate of $319 in 2004. In 2006, we ratified a contract that had a top rate in 2006 of $225. Notice that was less than both of Delta's 1999 rate and 2004 rate. So, did we always have a rate higher than the industry leader? Did we raise the bar, or did the bar sink below our rates? If we raised the bar with pattern bargaining in 2015, why did we accept rates lower than the rates that Delta rejected 3 months earlier? I get that your version of history is what you want to believe. If that makes you happy, then great. Maybe the sales job that convinced people to come here was a self created narrative.

 

If all we ever got was inflationary pay increases, our top rate at the amendable date would have been $287. Did we kill it or pattern off of the rates that the Big 5 had in 2000, no! But saying all we got was inflationary increases is disingenuous. If you think that all we did was give concessions to get those rates, then you don't know what you are talking about. Yes, in every contract negotiation each side has wants and asks. It is not a one sided evolution. Would you consider the pax guys allowing an increase to the number of 75 seat airframes in scope a concession, because that is what happened.

 

Spot on......