whalesurfer

It'll be an interesting day today..

-> Half-empty personality:
- It's going to be a very ugly day on Wall Street today...

-> Half-full:
- prime time for bargains in investing..

TonyC

Dow opens down more than 1,000 ...

If you've got 10 more years to retirement, it's great for the B-Plan.

If you've got 10 more days, not so.






.

Raptor

My A plan value hasn't changed in the past several hours. It's nice to have a balanced retirement!

Flybywyr

+++ 1
And if the global economy slows the company can park the MD-10's and gets a free ride on our crew shortage...

CloudSailor

Maybe I asked too many difficult questions in my previous post, but in light of the discussion on the stock market slide, does anyone know:

if the TA were to be rejected, do we keep everything in it as it stands now, and only improve on it during further negotiations? Or, do all negotiated sections become "open" once again (with the possibility of losing some of the gains we already have on hypothetical TA#1)?

busdriver12

Excellent questions. There must be someone on this thread that knows the answers.

Rock

Ask the guys at Delta. The head of their union resigned. I suspect a lot of other positions changed. Trying to avoid that certainly isn't a good reason to accept a bad TA, but I doubt the process of negotiations just resumes the next morning like someone didn't just take a giant Mexican food dump on what had previously been agreed on.

kronan

All sections are open until we have an agreement in principle.

all that means is that until last Wednesday, company could have reopened the TA sections. But I've never heard of that actually happening.

still, if the $$ levels were unacceptable to us, mgt could have offered more $$ but reopened the work rules.

many, many things are trade offs in a contract. focusing on one aspect can blind you to other positive or negative aspects.

need to keep the scan going, read it yourself, and make up,your own mind


and Dow down huge has an impact on the A plan as well. the dot com boom combined with unrealistic investment returns took down many pensions, even after legislation was passed in an effort to save them

kronan

should say it could have an impact on the A plan, merely intended to convey the fact that the A plan doesn't exist in a vacuum

Raptor

From reading the Delta forums, a major reason there is such turmoil at their MEC and NC is that a very large number of the pilots thought their TA should never have been sent to members for a vote in the first place.

I hope our MEC takes a good hard look at this. Sending back an incremental or poor TA is better than sending it out for a vote and having it rejected.

I think a 10% raise with minor or minimal improvements is barely beating COLA since we are two years past amendable date. And it would be a very long term contract so we must be careful. While inflation has been low for awhile, that could change quickly. We have to live with this potential contract for the better part of a decade. I hope these low ball raise rumors aren't true. If they are, the rest of the TA would have to be spectacular.

I am content to wait until it is released to us. I also want the union leadership lurkers to know I won't be in the least mad at them if they vote to send the process back to negotiations. If the potential TA can't garner better than 9-5, then frankly I suspect it isn't good enough. We get back to negotiations quicker and in better cohesiveness if it were rejected at the MEC level rather than through a pilot vote.

Another thing, let's not be nervous nellies over stock market woes. Both Fox and CNN (shout out to both camps--lol) say the economy is on solid footing regardless of cyclical numbers. This may be a painful few days or weeks or longer, but over the next 6-9 years we would have to live under a new CBA and the economy will have a lot of cycles in that time. Short term economic information should not color our long term expectations for our crew force. After all, 2 weeks ago "everyone" wanted an industry leading raise; today do we really think our contributions to the company have changed at all and we only deserve 10%? Then a month after we pass a 10% TA the stock market is back over 18,000 and we sit sadly by for nearly a decade of further growth with nothing to reward our contributions. Do we want to see all the other airlines leapfrog us over the next several years if we don't have a great TA?

We are in this for the long haul. We do hard work and under very difficult conditions. When we look at a TA, or trust in the MEC if they send it back, nothing will have changed in my mind from my thoughts of a year ago, two weeks ago, or today. I want a great TA, I deserve it, we deserve it. I will always be a professional pilot for the company regardless of whether we are in negotiations or have a new contract. BUT, my goodwill (and goodwill runs our ops) is not a given. The company will show me if it values me and my goodwill by how they treat me. They haven't done a very good job recently and a great TA would turn that around.