Would you prefer unlimited ... hmmm, I almost used the word Make-Up, but if there's no limit, the concept of Make-Up wouldn't really apply, would it? So, would you prefer the ability to work an unlimited amount of extra time at straight pay?



No different here.


So, the answer to my first question is "YES", you DO want to be able to work an unlimited amount at straight time. Very short-sighted.

Make-up hours are tracked for the benefit of the pilot, not The Company. The pilot is entitled to the Credit Hours that are on his awarded Bid Line. He should be given the opportunity to accomplish the work and earn the pay. If a subsequent conflict results in the need to remove such an opportunity to earn the pay, he is given the opportunity to make it up at a future time. This applies if the awarded line has carry-out trips that overlap with the following month, and it applies of the line has trips that conflict with training.

Consider the training scenario. You are awarded a line, and you have training. The training date you are awarded conflicts with trips, so you are removed from those trips and hours added to your Make-Up bank. Unless you do something to add trips to your schedule, your paycheck will suffer. So you look to Open Time for trips on other days that you can fly. Who do you believe should have priority for those Open Time trips, you and guys like you who have lost trips and therefore have hours in your Make-Up bank, or somebody who is even with the lines he's been awarded? Of course the priority should go to you.


I'm confident if you can figure out an FMS you'll be able to figure out this "overly complicated" system. Apparently it's not about the complexity, it's just that you want to work unlimited. If it's really that stressful, I can only suggest that you dive into ALPA work and try to muster support to change the work rules, or look for a job with different, "simpler" work rules.

The latitude and flexibility allowed on trip trading is, again, to the pilot's benefit. If you could only trade exact credit hours, you couldn't trade your 6:00 CH trip for the 6:07 CH trip in Open Time.



The Company would love it if everyone would work to the FAR limits at straight pay or less. That sounds like something you might be interested in. That falls into the category of pilots being their own worst enemies. Rather than being reduced to a pack of rats swarming for the crumbs that happen to fall to the floor, I, and the majority of our pilot group apparently, prefer a structure that results in the occasional need to solicit volunteers and offer draft pay at 150% for what most people would call OVERTIME work. Overtime pay for overtime work -- what a concept!



Then you'll need to explain your use of the pronouns "they" and "us."








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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Great post Tony. I'd like to emphasize the point that bank hours are hours that were awarded to your line and were lost due to a myriad of situations. The bank system helps pilots make up those lost hours rather than having a free for all with unlimited flying. If you don't think it would be worse without the bank system, imagine the Wolfpack on steroids.

The other problem with unlimited flying is the fact that pilots are our own worst enemies. Once you get addicted to that extra 2-3+ days of pay each month, it becomes hard to break the habit. Companies are great at playing pilots against each other.

It sounds like GAFlaps wants to work unlimited hours at straight time and the heck with anyone else.

 

Exactly! It appears that the new guys are scooping up all the Open Time for straight pay. Notice the lack of AVA lately??? It hurts all of us who place value on out time. I would rather have an incentive to pick up any company activity beyond my award or otherwise.

 

Personally, I don't believe this is a new guy vs old guy problem....unless your employee number only has 5 digits or less. Plenty of 6 digit guys are picking up OT trips within the constraints of the "limited" (m/u) system we have and you are defending. If this is us shooting ourselves at the expense of no AVA, then what's the point of m/u if it's going to be looked down upon when it's used for the very reason it's meant to be used for? Seems like a double standard to me. I personally think the lack of AVA is due to 1)less trip dropping and 2) better manning numbers. To that end, isn't making more money (even at straight pay) an incentive enough to pick up trips? I suspect that for many, and for many reasons, it is. If it's truly a new pilot issue, maybe the fix is to negotiate higher first year pay instead of relying on the occasional meal bought by the captain to make ends meet.


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I think you both are correct. Merica comments were a continued defense of our current system that limits MU to a little more than hours you were already guaranteed. We did increase first year pay quite a bit, last time.

 

ok.

I doubt it. 5 and 6 digit employees know what's going on. And their seniority allows them to bid what they want and trade around.

Manning??? Do you know were to see the daily manning allocation? Do you see red on your seat? Not to mention large new-hire classes continue every month.

Seriously??? Sure, everyone has their financial motivation. Public math tells me working 2 days and getting paid for 3 is financially advantageous. That will never happen if all of the "open trips" are always picked up at straight pay, even tapping from a sizeable M/U bank. Save your bank for a rainy day! There's no clouds on the horizon right now.

I'm not talking about trip-trading or moving your days around. I'm talking about picking up extra flying in open time on days you would otherwise be fishin', petting your dog, or playing golf.

All newer hires should pick a senor FO's brain sometime. They're usually happy to share their experiences for a better QOL without screwing your buddies... unless your are the OTP recyclers who are still fukcing everyone!!!!

 

You make some great points. Thanks.


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Hey, new poster here. I got the COJ and am awaiting a class date. HKG is available for next class on 20th Mar. I really want to go to CGN but its not available for next class. Options I see...thoughts?

1. Wait for next class, hope CGN is available and bid 757 till it is, lose seniority numbers in process.
2. Take HKG, and after two years there bid to CGN. (Can I go from HKG to CGN?)

I'm single, and have lived in HKG before, so the process of moving there won't be an issue. I still have my HSBC account. It was fun for a while there, but I don't want to be there more than the 2 year commitment.

Cheers

 

Take the first class and seat you are offered. BId CGN when you can, you will get it. IF HKG sounds like fun to you it probably will be. 100 bucks an hour new hire pay isn't bad. If getting to CGN is your number one priority Bid Memphis as it will probably be easier to leave than HKG. Yes you can go from HKG to CGN but they tend to play games with the manning lists, particularly when it comes to FDAs. HKG, MEM or IND 76 will result in no training when you finally get awarded CGN. They are talking about expanding CGN, so it is likely that there will be a bid with CGN on it in the next 12 months. If you activate in HKG it could be tougher to leave. If you are in training for Mem 76 when the bid closes they could send you to CGN immediately.