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Old 02-17-2009, 09:01 AM   #11  
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I am never apt to use inflammatory words on a public internet forum, especially with nice folks like pilots. But using your own figures you make about $24k before tax. This is not a lot of money, you are talking about poverty for a family of three. In addition, you must have a $50k bank note to pay on. If you even made minimum payments you would be sending them about $500 a month out of what is already poverty wages. Sorry but I do not see the light in the proposal at all.
Why does nobody do ground instruction anymore? I do, and I also charge for it. So, yes, $24k a year, just for the flying, and then about another $24k for ground instruction. Not bad for an instructor eh?
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:02 AM   #12  
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I've never been a fan of ATP's 90 day program. I think it pushes the limit since you have no time for seasoning between ratings. No time to learn "outside the box". So, in my opinion, "nobody can do it as fast as ATP", is more of a negative than a positive.

To answer the OP's question about the intern turbine time thing. I believe ATP has planned for a long time to operate a new model of the VLJ's (forget which one) in a charter or Frac type operation. They will need a fully qualified pilot for the left seat but will put an "intern" in the right seat to build turbine time. Depending on how this is structured, it could be seen as Gulfstream style PFJ, at worst, or simply loggable ride along time a la Eagle Jet International.

In the end, it's hardly proven how the industry will respond to such a unique program, even if there was any hiring going on for the industry to respond too...

In this hiring enviornment, I'd hardly suggest ATP "because" of the internship program. If you like ATP for other reasons, then knock yerself out, but I see the "internship" program as a highly unproven carrot that ATP is using to sell their program much like the RJ course used to be.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:04 AM   #13  
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The hourly rate sounds good... But I'm only seeing about 23,400 a year... Why wouldn't you want to go for an airline? I know the first year is about eh same, but you keep on moving up each year at least?

I don't want to go to an airline because I want to fly, not watch the airplane fly itself. Kudos to those who can do the airline thing, but I am a down low and slow kinda guy. I will eventually find a job like that that suits me, but for now, I'll continue to instruct.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:05 AM   #14  
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Why does nobody do ground instruction anymore? I do, and I also charge for it. So, yes, $24k a year, just for the flying, and then about another $24k for ground instruction. Not bad for an instructor eh?

More than I make as a corporate drone... and I have to pay for my C172 time!
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:08 AM   #15  
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I don't want to go to an airline because I want to fly, not watch the airplane fly itself. Kudos to those who can do the airline thing, but I am a down low and slow kinda guy. I will eventually find a job like that that suits me, but for now, I'll continue to instruct.

Well I admire that. Wish you could be my CFI.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:11 AM   #16  
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Check these links out:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/p...070925259.html

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/r...061025145.html

I'm amazed that there is a bank out there wanting to make a loan on flight training. However, consider that there are 1,000's of qualified and experienced 121 crews that are furloughed. You stand to wait for a line number for a very very long time.

I wouldn't suggest a career in aviation from zero time right now, but good luck if you do. Color brochures and the promise of fame and fortune are hard to resist, do your due diligence and set your expectations accordingly.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:28 AM   #17  
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Check these links out:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/p...070925259.html

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/r...061025145.html

I'm amazed that there is a bank out there wanting to make a loan on flight training. However, consider that there are 1,000's of qualified and experienced 121 crews that are furloughed. You stand to wait for a line number for a very very long time.

I wouldn't suggest a career in aviation from zero time right now, but good luck if you do. Color brochures and the promise of fame and fortune are hard to resist, do your due diligence and set your expectations accordingly.
I respectfully disagree. Now IS the time to prepare. Start preparing in the in the valley, so you are ready to go at the peak. Yes, times will be tough right now for 0 timers, but you don't have to have only one flying job, and no second job.

Last edited by mshunter; 02-17-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:29 AM   #18  
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.......To answer the OP's question about the intern turbine time thing. I believe ATP has planned for a long time to operate a new model of the VLJ's (forget which one) in a charter or Frac type operation. They will need a fully qualified pilot for the left seat but will put an "intern" in the right seat to build turbine time. Depending on how this is structured, it could be seen as Gulfstream style PFJ, at worst, or simply loggable ride along time a la Eagle Jet International.

In the end, it's hardly proven how the industry will respond to such a unique program, even if there was any hiring going on for the industry to respond too...

In this hiring enviornment, I'd hardly suggest ATP "because" of the internship program. If you like ATP for other reasons, then knock yerself out, but I see the "internship" program as a highly unproven carrot that ATP is using to sell their program much like the RJ course used to be.

This conversation is really getting interesting to hear all the pros and cons about PFT/PFJ, not to mention the other thread about "Teaching students right and wrong about PFT/PFJ". I believe it's in the "Flight Training" forum. This subject seems to be the "line in the sand" for so many. I can see both sides of the argument. But can we really crucify the person that decides to take that route? It may just be what the doctor order for them. Not a whole lot of CFI jobs out there. If a person does decide to go the way of PFT, when things do pick up again, they will be in the hunt.

I got a call from Gulfstream today. Given the state of the economy and industry, they are offering a program where if you're not able to be offered a line position with them, for another 5K you can accumulate another 150 hrs of turboprop time in the 1900 flying as an FO. I wonder how much it would cost to go to say...FlightSafety and purchase 150 hrs in a KA200?

Mmmmm!


atp
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:32 AM   #19  
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I respectfully disagree. Now IS the time to prepare. Start in the vallet, so you are ready at the peak. Yes, times will be tough right now for 0 timers, but you don't have to have only one flying job, and no second job.
I agree now is the time you want to get training and experience so you can ride the wave when it comes again, and it will. I think HSLD is saying things will be very slow. With that, there's no reason for a wannabe to pay a premium for the 0 to hero programs out there right now. Find a solid school and instructor and train paying as little money as possible. You can still have those ratings 6 months for now for 30-50 percent less.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:35 AM   #20  
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Originally Posted by atpwannabe View Post
This conversation is really getting interesting to hear all the pros and cons about PFT/PFJ, not to mention the other thread about "Teaching students right and wrong about PFT/PFJ". I believe it's in the "Flight Training" forum. This subject seems to be the line in the sand for so many. I can see both sides of the argument. But can we really crucify the person that decides to take that route? It may just be what the doctor order for them. Not a whole lot of CFI jobs out there. If a person does decide to go the way of PFT, when things do pick up again, they will be in the hunt.

I got a call from Gulfstream today. Given the state of the economy and industry, they are offering a program where if you're not able to be offered a line position with them, for another 5K you can accumulate another 150 hrs of turboprop time in the 1900 flying as an FO. I wonder how much it would cost to go to say...FlightSafety and purchase 150 hrs in a KA200?

Mmmmm!


atp
PFJ is like russian roulette...you never know who's gonna be on the other side of that interview desk, not good for said applicant if it were me. I wouldn't spend the money even in good hiring times. To each his own though.
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