How do you REALLY build time?
06-13-2009, 02:14 PM
#31
Snakes & Nape
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: B-767 Captain
Posts: 775
A Little Hard to Believe
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
He had over 60,000 hours. Granted, it wasn't fast, it wasn't very high, it wasn't glamorous, and he probably didn't make much...but it was an amazing total.
That's almost 7 years not touching the planet.
That's one way to build time.
That's almost 7 years not touching the planet.
That's one way to build time.
G'Day Mates
06-13-2009, 02:40 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by AirWillie
PIC teaching is different than PIC flying.
PIC teaching may be more difficult and more valuable because your student is going to get you into situations you wouldn't get yourself into, maybe, like say, an FO?
06-13-2009, 04:47 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by 250 or point 65
Yeah, it is.
PIC teaching may be more difficult and more valuable because your student is going to get you into situations you wouldn't get yourself into, maybe, like say, an FO?
PIC teaching may be more difficult and more valuable because your student is going to get you into situations you wouldn't get yourself into, maybe, like say, an FO?
06-13-2009, 08:51 PM
#34
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: KingAir Left Seat
Posts: 18
Maybe I missed one of the post, but is there any 135 cargo companies in your area that require an SIC? I began with one with only 700 hrs TT and 6.5 multi commercial. Best experience and instruction anywhere. Cargo isn't picky about the weather and they want the box there.
06-13-2009, 09:13 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: Box Pusher
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by Fr8DogDan
Maybe I missed one of the post, but is there any 135 cargo companies in your area that require an SIC? I began with one with only 700 hrs TT and 6.5 multi commercial. Best experience and instruction anywhere. Cargo isn't picky about the weather and they want the box there.
06-13-2009, 09:33 PM
#36
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
Posts: 849
A few thoughts:
First, there is a natural preconception to earning your living aviation - after all that is the goal. What about a "day job" (could be a night job) that doesn't involve operating the aircraft? Working at an FBO, bartending, whatever - but choosing a position that allowed you the time and/or flexibility to continue to fly at the same time (eg; wait tables at night, tow banners for $8K during the day). Certainly not an easy (or preferred way to get there, but it's a possibility).
Second, I don't know how possible it is to find today, but also consider befriending a local 135 operator and riding along as "ballast" on live legs, then flying the aircraft on deadheads (Part 91 flghts). Completely legal, completely loggable.
Finally, I don't completely agree with the premise that right seat time in a King Air is of no value. While you certianly can't log Part 91 SIC in this scenario, if (big if) you are able to build a relationship with a corporate operator flying such equipment, you MIGHT be able to get them to let you actually fly some legs (logged as PIC since you are sole manipulator). IF that is the case, then you can log that time (assuming you are appropriately qualified). How would I address this in an interview - my personal approach was honesty was the best policy: "Yes, I actually flew the aircraft, so I logged PIC. However, I was operating under the supervision of the companies pilot . . . ect so on and so forth."
Personally if I heard and honest explanation of this time in an interview, it would be a non-issue. Try and tell me that as a 600 hour pilot you were the "true PIC" of that aircraft and I'll be asking A LOT more questions. As has been said, (almost) everyone knows we all had to start somewhere - the question for me is are you honest enough to tell me what it really amounted to.
Sorry to be so long winded.
First, there is a natural preconception to earning your living aviation - after all that is the goal. What about a "day job" (could be a night job) that doesn't involve operating the aircraft? Working at an FBO, bartending, whatever - but choosing a position that allowed you the time and/or flexibility to continue to fly at the same time (eg; wait tables at night, tow banners for $8K during the day). Certainly not an easy (or preferred way to get there, but it's a possibility).
Second, I don't know how possible it is to find today, but also consider befriending a local 135 operator and riding along as "ballast" on live legs, then flying the aircraft on deadheads (Part 91 flghts). Completely legal, completely loggable.
Finally, I don't completely agree with the premise that right seat time in a King Air is of no value. While you certianly can't log Part 91 SIC in this scenario, if (big if) you are able to build a relationship with a corporate operator flying such equipment, you MIGHT be able to get them to let you actually fly some legs (logged as PIC since you are sole manipulator). IF that is the case, then you can log that time (assuming you are appropriately qualified). How would I address this in an interview - my personal approach was honesty was the best policy: "Yes, I actually flew the aircraft, so I logged PIC. However, I was operating under the supervision of the companies pilot . . . ect so on and so forth."
Personally if I heard and honest explanation of this time in an interview, it would be a non-issue. Try and tell me that as a 600 hour pilot you were the "true PIC" of that aircraft and I'll be asking A LOT more questions. As has been said, (almost) everyone knows we all had to start somewhere - the question for me is are you honest enough to tell me what it really amounted to.
Sorry to be so long winded.
06-13-2009, 10:19 PM
#37
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Wait it out
Ya know you might have to wait it out. The industry is in the dumpster and it does not seem likely that it will get any better soon. Most of the lower rung jobs are going to be occupied for some time to come. The dream opportunities that new pilots often get will be hard to find. The risk is that you will burn yourself out banging your head against firmly closed doors.
Now would be a good time to go to college and get your four year degree (unless you have one already). You could work on getting a high paying career field and save towards buying a plane?
You also might consider that maybe now is not the time. Luck plays a significant role in a pilots story. It could take a decade to get back to where we were just a year or two ago. If you don't have the resources to buy your way in then perhaps you should consider something else?
Skyhigh
Now would be a good time to go to college and get your four year degree (unless you have one already). You could work on getting a high paying career field and save towards buying a plane?
You also might consider that maybe now is not the time. Luck plays a significant role in a pilots story. It could take a decade to get back to where we were just a year or two ago. If you don't have the resources to buy your way in then perhaps you should consider something else?
Skyhigh
06-13-2009, 11:29 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"If you don't have the resources to buy your way in then perhaps you should consider something else?"
Hi Sky. What, exactly, do you mean by "buy your way in"? I'm looking for some new Skyhigh quotes...
It seems you are a proponent of paying for a job, or paying for experience, as a way to enhance an individuals career. Buying a job in this biz is generally looked down upon. Do you really think it's a good way to go?
Hi Sky. What, exactly, do you mean by "buy your way in"? I'm looking for some new Skyhigh quotes...
It seems you are a proponent of paying for a job, or paying for experience, as a way to enhance an individuals career. Buying a job in this biz is generally looked down upon. Do you really think it's a good way to go?
06-14-2009, 06:39 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
One trick I used, was hanging out with the local EAA chapter. I made sure I got a HP and complex endorsment as soon as I got my PPL. I traded splitting fuel cost with a lot of owners not wanting to fly alone,( getting up in age), for some stick time, and I learned a thing or two also, this is one way you can build some time, and be exposed to some interesting experimental aircraft. I didnt build a ton of quick time this way, but it added some to my TT when I went for my CPL. Youll also meet some interesting characters, homebuilders are a differant breed. You can also trade labor with annuals, cleaning hangers, I even did some fiberglass work for a guy for a couple lessons in a Christian Eagle, ect, for some flight time, and just by being there you can learn some basic maintenance practices also.
06-14-2009, 03:54 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by de727ups
Hi Sky. What, exactly, do you mean by "buy your way in"? I'm looking for some new Skyhigh quotes...
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