SkyHigh

I believe that no matter what aviation will cost you something. Some pay in wasted years of their lives while others pay in cash and up front. When I was in a similar position during he recession of the early 1990's I waited it out and built my flight experience one hour at a time. Others I knew bought their way in through various means. The most traditional way is buying a job.

Looking back at the time I stood by my morals and even if I had the money I would not have bought myself a job. However, the strategy did not serve me well. Those who lied about their experience or who bought a job were able to jump years ahead of me.

In the long run it is cheaper to pay in cash then in years of your life. In any case at least you need to be able to afford to wait it out. Those who are able to climb to the top usually do not let anything stand in their way.

I made my choice and my morals and values are intact but they cost me. Rules, morals and fairness are all things to be negotiated away if you want to increase your odds in aviation.

Skyhigh

SaltyDog

I went in the military, 10 years active duty, when got out, most everyone in midst of furloughing. Got a job fly Emb-120'S at COEX. Junior F/O for 2.5 years. Didn't pay for training (PFT) and got offered jobs at DHL and UPS. Went UPS. Had lots of other options available when the market came back. Your right, didn't let anything stand in my way. Married 20 years, kids,etc. Didn't compromise my morals, ethics.
The OP is smart, getting experience now for when the market does reopen, will be ready.

USMCFLYR

Once again you do a wonderful job of trying to lump everyone together. When I read your post it sounds like you are saying that anyone who ever succeeded in aviation failed your test in some way - and it just isn't true Sky. Is it your opinion that no one got a job while sharing your convictions?

USMCFLYR

Fr8DogDan

Sky, I disagree with your theory. While I understand that in the early 90's, most regionals did have their pilots pay for training and I agree that wasn't the way to go, but it had to start somewhere. Since then things have changed around and you don't pay for training, at least a high percentage of the companies. I know a pilot who did not feel pay for training was the way to go and he began hauling checks. He worked his way up and at last was a captain for a regional and he didn't have to sell his soul to do it. Just hard work. As far as faslifying log books, which is what I took from the fasifying experience statement, either they have been caught or will be. It'll catch them.

SkyHigh

Pay to play will come back. Parker pen pilots will also stage a return. During times like these desperation will make people do all kinds of things. If a guy is an unemployed low time pilot who is going nowhere anyway then what have they got to lose?

The last 4 years or so were unusually good ones. Pilots were able to advance at a pace that did not pressure them to take a logbook risk. Now that things are slowing down to a crawl people will have to sit on the sidelines watching their dream die slowly. Eventually the pressure to succeed will inspire the pen and some companies to sell their jobs.

A new situation could be that regional airlines will be expected to raise their minimums in reaction to the Colgan crash. Who will take the lower rung jobs? How will pilots in the future get multi-engine flight times to meet the higher minimums? It could all lead to a new parker pen culture and even the airlines will not look to closely at the logbooks of applicants.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

All I am saying is that if you have loose morals and are willing to make a deal with the devil you can go far in aviation. The good guy can still get there too but they face a much harder road and most likely will get stuck along the way on a lower rung.

Skyhigh

AtlCSIP

In the end, the good guy will always win. Morals, ethics, and hard work will always perservere over time, but you have to be your own advocate. You have to create your opportunities, not wait for someone to provide them for you. The squeaky wheel get the grease, so work hard, but talk to as many people as you can so you can discover opportunities and future employers can discover you.

cospilot

We don't remember the time when it took YEARS to get enough flight time for anyone to look at us. Before my uncle was even allowed to sit in the right seat, he had to put a lot of years in as a crop duster during the summer and would ferry airplanes in the winter. Eventually all the time paid off and he became a captain on a Falcon.

So like someone pointed out, dig in. FlyJSH offered some great options but you are going to have to work for them. I still believe flight instructing is one of the best ways to get your hours.

Here is something else to consider. Be a self-employed flight instructor that offers airplane checkouts for those who just bought their airplanes, offers biennial flight reviews (BFR), instrument proficiency checks (IPC), and checkride preparation. Or you can become an expert in a high-performance airplane, like the Pilatus, and do recurrent training and checkouts.

Here are some other thoughts. Instead of wasting time on what you can't control, make sure you are taking care of what you can like your education. Now is the best time to make sure you have your bachelor's degree so you are ready when the interview comes.

One last thought, stay proficient and current. When it is time for your airline interview, they are going to want to see that you've flown in the last year and the last six months. Don't leave those blocks empty.

To Your Flying Success...

Vampilot

I've seen mention of instructing on this thread. I just got my CFI last December and I've been able to bill a whopping 40 hours of dual given since then. I just picked up my MEI and I'm lucky to be with a school that not only actually has a twin but very few MEI's. Frustrating...but the GF is good with it (she's an RN - talk about $$$ and in demand!).

The "pool" of interested trainees is drying up folks. I knew I was fortunate to get a CFI job...but didn't know how fortunate until I noticed the almost never-ending stream of new Aviation Management graduates, furloughed 300 hour wonders, furloughed 135 pilots, ATP/Comair Academy/pilot factory wunderkinds, and more who walked in the office to dop a resume for almost no students to teach to begin with. (Resumes went right in the trash but I still felt bad for those who were really trying to hit the pavement).

Basically, EVERYONE is doing the same hitting of the pavement - some with 300TT+, type ratings, 121/135 experience, etc. The thing you may have in your favor...is you DON'T have 3000TT+, a type rating, 121/135 experience. The high powered types, well, we know they'll just leave at the drop of a hat so why bother bringing them in to begin with?

This thing will eventually turn and when it does, watch out! Age 65 finally hitting + ex pilots ****ed off from several furloughs and went into another career + no one particularly lining up to get their ratings due to the, ahem, "dynamics" of this industry = a real interesting time just waiting to happen.

lear553560ed

You have to work at an airport to find a flying Job. I worked line for years, had countless of oppurtunities to fly with old guys flying their planes on weekends, scared of having a heart attack mid flight and alone. Line service gives you tons of chances to network. I found my flying job by being the line manager for an FBO that serviced a Part 135 Jet Charter. That company hired me away from the FBO to manage their facility. 7 years of hard work was rewarded with a SIC type rating making me legal for the right seat. Fast forward 5 more years now with 2 PIC type ratings (JET). Bottom line is HARD work and luck. Everyones story is different, but I'm pretty sure those 2 factors will resurface time and again. By the way, I didn't go into that job with the intention of flying for them. I had no time worth anything, so I just did the job I had chosen and and was happy to be around aviation. They sent me to school for my SIC type with just over 275 hours fixed wing time!
It can happen, I promise. Get on an airport, get a job, any job, WORK hard, and be patient.
Good Luck