XOJET Questions
03-12-2021, 03:35 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 778
Originally Posted by backcoursebob27
Anyone who applies needs to understand the current situation with vista. XO is a now a far cry from what it used to be and is headed down as fast as they can muster.
All current pilot pay is frozen, and capped at ten year pay scale. They tell us that once we achieve 3 consecutive months of 2018 flight hours and yield levels, they will give us our pay back. The general consensus is that they are using the plandemic to get concessions until our current MOU is up, then put everyone on their crappy vista pay scale.
To achieve this, they will be creating a group of scabs using a “B” pay scale which no one really knows what it is but probably the vista pay scale: 75k for FO’s, CA pay at 120 until 5 years, then 123 until ten then capped at 129. One and only one week of vacation and training on days off. Maybe someone from the vista side can confirm if they are still training on days off.
They are pushing hard to get us to go to 15/13 and once they do this many will quit opening up the door for hiring said scabs who will undoubtedly be the people with prior DUI’s and busted checkrides.
Meanwhile we are flying as much if not more than ever, with the awful uniforms. Operations is not completely useless, and our workload has increased tremendously having to check everything they do, or forget to do. You are basically on your own, and spend all day correcting ridiculous mistakes and oversights. They told us this would get better once the move happened but a year in its even worse than before.
This is not hype, or an exaggeration, just know what you are getting into, as vistas true colors are coming through. Also they have purchased two charter outfits while cutting our pay, and spent 500k/per plane to paint and refurb the 300’s. They successfully took one of the best 135 outfits to work for, and destroyed it. The culture is totally different now, and they are not really transparent and honest like they claim to be.
All current pilot pay is frozen, and capped at ten year pay scale. They tell us that once we achieve 3 consecutive months of 2018 flight hours and yield levels, they will give us our pay back. The general consensus is that they are using the plandemic to get concessions until our current MOU is up, then put everyone on their crappy vista pay scale.
To achieve this, they will be creating a group of scabs using a “B” pay scale which no one really knows what it is but probably the vista pay scale: 75k for FO’s, CA pay at 120 until 5 years, then 123 until ten then capped at 129. One and only one week of vacation and training on days off. Maybe someone from the vista side can confirm if they are still training on days off.
They are pushing hard to get us to go to 15/13 and once they do this many will quit opening up the door for hiring said scabs who will undoubtedly be the people with prior DUI’s and busted checkrides.
Meanwhile we are flying as much if not more than ever, with the awful uniforms. Operations is not completely useless, and our workload has increased tremendously having to check everything they do, or forget to do. You are basically on your own, and spend all day correcting ridiculous mistakes and oversights. They told us this would get better once the move happened but a year in its even worse than before.
This is not hype, or an exaggeration, just know what you are getting into, as vistas true colors are coming through. Also they have purchased two charter outfits while cutting our pay, and spent 500k/per plane to paint and refurb the 300’s. They successfully took one of the best 135 outfits to work for, and destroyed it. The culture is totally different now, and they are not really transparent and honest like they claim to be.
Our management, CPO, and Round Table have done everything in their power to keep people employed during COVID, for which I am especially grateful (I've tried supporting my family on pennies before, and it's no trip to Disney Land). Our management has been on a 50% pay cut since last April or May, all while keeping pilot's paid in full throughout 2020. The pilot pay freeze started in January, and to my limited knowledge was another method of staving off furloughs. The market is slowly starting to improve and yields are trending up, so hopefully we won't be frozen long. I know for a fact that our Round Table and management are currently working to improve pilot compensation.
I haven't seen a push for 15/13. We were recently awarded our 2021-2022 schedules and 8/6 is still there. People that choose to do the 15/13 have their reasons and it works for them. If you have a young family then 8/6 might be the way to go.
I just received my new uniforms, but X guys and gals haven't had to wear them yet. If one of your biggest concerns is your pilot uniform, then you're in the wrong industry. Go be in fashion.
I haven't had as many issues with ops as BCB27 claims he has. Yes there were some growing pains with new people in FL, but I have seen quite a bit of improvement from my perspective. If I do discover a problem, and it's not super often, I call ops and get it corrected. Simple as that.
As far as new paint on airplanes, 1. some of them desperately needed it and 2.I'm not sure where BCB27 gets his info from, but my understanding is that the money for paint came from Vista Global and not XOJET. In other words, they did not dig into salary funds to pay for paint. Vista Global is investing a lot of money to grow the XO brand; paint and uniforms are part of that investment.
For what it's worth, I go to work, work hard, enjoy the people I work with, the places we go, and come home after each rotation feeling like I've done something fun and worth doing. We work hard, of course, but we play hard too. The culture is still very much alive here. COVID has certainly had an effect on the culture though, but most of us have found a way to work around it. We still go to good restaurants, have drinks, go running, hiking and workout, etc. Our CPO is awesome and they will bend over backwards for us. All of that to say, I can assure you that BCB27 does not represent 99% of the pilot group at XOJET. If BCB27 has a problem, perhaps he should look in the mirror to find the source. Keep in mind too that BCB's account was created in Nov. 2020. Whoever this person is feels the need to create a separate "nom de internet" to vent apart from their normal profile, so take that into consideration as well.
Last edited by multipilot; 03-12-2021 at 04:19 PM.
03-12-2021, 05:43 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 117
The previous replies to BCB27 speak for themselves, but are, in my view, accurate counters to BCB27's complaints. I've been at XO about 2 years and while the culture and company have been challenged over those two years with, (1) the purchase by Vista, (2) the move from CA to FLL and then COVID, I don't think there's another 135 operator (or anyone for that matter) who has handled those issues better than XO.
I came from a 30 yr 121 background and XO has been some of the most fun flying I've ever done. The pilot group and culture are top notch and while 2020 was a PITA year for layovers (restaurants, lounges, gyms closed), I've still been impressed with the way XO has treated us. Still top hotels (Hiltons/Marriotts), rental cars on request and no questions when you occasionally go over the daily allowance for food (been hard to do with COVID).
I'm leaving XO in the not too distant future to "retire" retire, as the reasons I took the job have changed for me personally. I'm happy to move on with my life, but I'll admit to some FOMO on the changes that are coming to this company. I think they are positioning themselves to be a premier 135 operator in the US and globally. For any of you looking to replace me, you should count yourself lucky if you get to work with this group, even with the new uniform. Just my .02.
I came from a 30 yr 121 background and XO has been some of the most fun flying I've ever done. The pilot group and culture are top notch and while 2020 was a PITA year for layovers (restaurants, lounges, gyms closed), I've still been impressed with the way XO has treated us. Still top hotels (Hiltons/Marriotts), rental cars on request and no questions when you occasionally go over the daily allowance for food (been hard to do with COVID).
I'm leaving XO in the not too distant future to "retire" retire, as the reasons I took the job have changed for me personally. I'm happy to move on with my life, but I'll admit to some FOMO on the changes that are coming to this company. I think they are positioning themselves to be a premier 135 operator in the US and globally. For any of you looking to replace me, you should count yourself lucky if you get to work with this group, even with the new uniform. Just my .02.
03-12-2021, 06:49 PM
#23
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by BackCourseBob27
Anyone who applies needs to understand the current situation with vista. XO is a now a far cry from what it used to be and is headed down as fast as they can muster.
All current pilot pay is frozen, and capped at ten year pay scale. They tell us that once we achieve 3 consecutive months of 2018 flight hours and yield levels, they will give us our pay back. The general consensus is that they are using the plandemic to get concessions until our current MOU is up, then put everyone on their crappy vista pay scale.
To achieve this, they will be creating a group of scabs using a “B” pay scale which no one really knows what it is but probably the vista pay scale: 75k for FO’s, CA pay at 120 until 5 years, then 123 until ten then capped at 129. One and only one week of vacation and training on days off. Maybe someone from the vista side can confirm if they are still training on days off.
They are pushing hard to get us to go to 15/13 and once they do this many will quit opening up the door for hiring said scabs who will undoubtedly be the people with prior DUI’s and busted checkrides.
Meanwhile we are flying as much if not more than ever, with the awful uniforms. Operations is not completely useless, and our workload has increased tremendously having to check everything they do, or forget to do. You are basically on your own, and spend all day correcting ridiculous mistakes and oversights. They told us this would get better once the move happened but a year in its even worse than before.
This is not hype, or an exaggeration, just know what you are getting into, as vistas true colors are coming through. Also they have purchased two charter outfits while cutting our pay, and spent 500k/per plane to paint and refurb the 300’s. They successfully took one of the best 135 outfits to work for, and destroyed it. The culture is totally different now, and they are not really transparent and honest like they claim to be.
All current pilot pay is frozen, and capped at ten year pay scale. They tell us that once we achieve 3 consecutive months of 2018 flight hours and yield levels, they will give us our pay back. The general consensus is that they are using the plandemic to get concessions until our current MOU is up, then put everyone on their crappy vista pay scale.
To achieve this, they will be creating a group of scabs using a “B” pay scale which no one really knows what it is but probably the vista pay scale: 75k for FO’s, CA pay at 120 until 5 years, then 123 until ten then capped at 129. One and only one week of vacation and training on days off. Maybe someone from the vista side can confirm if they are still training on days off.
They are pushing hard to get us to go to 15/13 and once they do this many will quit opening up the door for hiring said scabs who will undoubtedly be the people with prior DUI’s and busted checkrides.
Meanwhile we are flying as much if not more than ever, with the awful uniforms. Operations is not completely useless, and our workload has increased tremendously having to check everything they do, or forget to do. You are basically on your own, and spend all day correcting ridiculous mistakes and oversights. They told us this would get better once the move happened but a year in its even worse than before.
This is not hype, or an exaggeration, just know what you are getting into, as vistas true colors are coming through. Also they have purchased two charter outfits while cutting our pay, and spent 500k/per plane to paint and refurb the 300’s. They successfully took one of the best 135 outfits to work for, and destroyed it. The culture is totally different now, and they are not really transparent and honest like they claim to be.
Can anyone name a company in any industry that has a 90 day employee return policy? XOJET does. As long as you left XOJET in good standing, you can return to XOJET within 90 days and still keep your status as if you never left, no questions asked. This has been a policy since the beginning of XOJET and one they have honored many times even during this COVID pandemic. We had several people leave here for “greener pastures” like the airlines or Part 91 gigs only to be furloughed/ laid off day one of the pandemic (exactly one year ago today). Instead of being jobless, they were able to return to XOJET at their previous position and all they lost was seniority minus days off property. That’s unbelievable. Not only that, but we have had a few pilots return a few years after leaving XOJET for varies reasons. They had to start again as FOs but they are happy to still have that opportunity to return. That should tell you A LOT about this pilot group and company.
I work with awesome people and an amazing company. The key word is work. This is not a vacation, although we would all like it to be. I know exactly what days I am working, and what days I am home. I DO NOT work or train on my days off. When I am on rotation, I make the best of every over night and destination. Sometimes, you’re lucky enough to land at JAC early enough to hit the slopes at Snow King before having an awesome dinner downtown. Other times you land late at night in the islands but force yourself to wake up early and walk on the beach, sipping coffee before another busy day. This job is what you make of it.
The Company is growing, and with that, there are some growing pains. They are trying to establish a new identity, one that I am excited to be a part of. I find it incredible what they have been able to accomplish during these trying times. While other companies are reducing their staff and parking airplanes, they are trying to ensure job security. If my pay has to freeze for a few months to ensure that, so be it. I can literally talk for hours and give many examples of why I am proud to work for XOJET. If you have any question, I believe this website allows you to contact me directly. I only made this account to I could respond to this AWFUL post that the coward BackCourseBob27 took down.
03-12-2021, 07:07 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 68
I'll chime in. Been here a little over a year and it's the best place I've worked in 23 years in the industry. Great treatment all around. Not interested in ever working anywhere else as it stands now.
I fly with great, professional crews and have never experienced anything but courtesy and professionalism from ANY coworker. It's a testament to the culture here.
No place is perfect but in my experience this is the happiest pilot group I've worked with. Just my 2 cents. I've worked for places that were poorly managed and had a ****ed-off pilot group. This isn't one of them. Not even close.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I fly with great, professional crews and have never experienced anything but courtesy and professionalism from ANY coworker. It's a testament to the culture here.
No place is perfect but in my experience this is the happiest pilot group I've worked with. Just my 2 cents. I've worked for places that were poorly managed and had a ****ed-off pilot group. This isn't one of them. Not even close.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Last edited by StrangeBrew; 03-12-2021 at 07:22 PM.
03-12-2021, 11:33 PM
#25
XOJET Citation X
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Good on to my fellow XOer's who have replied to BC. Turning lemons into lemonade from what I can tell.
To those who may not know me, I've posted quite a bit about XO since getting hired in May 2019. If you want to search my credentials/post (great for insomniacs) go for it or call me at 214.924.9033 and I'll give you the straight skinny on what I'm seeing at XO.
I challenge Backcoursebob27 to do the same thing. It’s about being transparent folks...then make your judgements. I'm not trying to be confrontational with BC or those who have already commented on here as every pilot has their own perspective. Mine is as a 20 yr military pilot, 20 yr retired SWA pilot, close observer of the 121 industry and since joining XO for the past 22 months, close observer and poster on this forum and other places.
I don't know who BC is nor if he even works here at XO. Some general observations:
1. He/she has posted a total of 4 times on APF...and he has deleted his original post...that tells you alot.
Food for thought: Does that make his/her posts less or more credible? The readers are assuming the pilot works at XO...how do you know? Could it be someone who is just wanting to stir up trouble and dissent? Overheard conversations in an FBO are great fodder or made up "she said, he said" makes for entertainment for some folks (bizarre I know) ..."hey look on this forum and see what I started." My recommendations, tap the brakes on assuming BC has any idea on what is really going on at XO. He/she is welcome to PM or post on here to provide more perspective. Happy to engage in meaningful debate/discussion.
2. BC Joined APF in Nov 2020. Lists himself as a "new hire".
I'm assuming he/she is as they say, "a new hire". Maybe they've been here for 10 yrs and are only just now venting...possible but not probable... I'm not trying to out anyone or embarrass anyone but wanted folks to understand anonymous forums are fine but one has to earn one's stripes to be "believable" IMHO. I've been posting since the predecessor of APF, flightinfo.com days beginning in '98 before I got hired at SWA. Sniffing out an "outlier" opinion versus a true “consensus” is something one just learns to do. Of course, if the reader (or in this case possibly the poster) is pre-determined to
1. dislike non-union shops
2. believe that all airline management is out to get pilots
3. pilots are an oppressed group and always underpaid regardless of the world around them
and many other preconceived ideas, then posts like BC are like manna from heaven. The "I told you so" has already cropped up in some of the replies.
I've included my comments to BC and to lurkers/other posters in red below.
“They” again…my perspective, I worked a dream job at SWA with great culture and when I left there were some who complained and said, “boy SWA culture has changed a lot since you got hired hasn’t it” and my answer was, “the airline needed to change mergers, flying to bigger airports, Caribbean, HI and much more allowed it to increase revenue and expand but the people, the culture, the enjoyment I got out of being with my co-workers, nope, nothing has changed. What I’ve found is that “some” people change as they go along in their career, their expectations change, their attitude toward customers change, their attitude toward job security changes and is taken for granted changes and much more. Yes, I’m a glass half full kind of guy and in my time at XO I’ve experienced a culture as close to SWA as any I could’ve imagined in the 135 world. SWA wasn’t perfect and some pilots complained. XO isn’t perfect and some pilots complained. My question to you is what are you doing to make it better on your last trip or any trip in the last month? Sorry you find it so miserable and my sincere wish is you can find a home that will bring you far more enjoyment than XO is providing you. No disrespect sir is meant and if taken that way (maybe some sarcasm but it is a pilot forum and we can all take it right?) and we come at this completely differently. However, ****ing in your own mess kit in such a public manner with tales and stories that are not reflective of what is representative of the XO crews, management and flight ops is less than professional IMHO.
To those who may not know me, I've posted quite a bit about XO since getting hired in May 2019. If you want to search my credentials/post (great for insomniacs) go for it or call me at 214.924.9033 and I'll give you the straight skinny on what I'm seeing at XO.
I challenge Backcoursebob27 to do the same thing. It’s about being transparent folks...then make your judgements. I'm not trying to be confrontational with BC or those who have already commented on here as every pilot has their own perspective. Mine is as a 20 yr military pilot, 20 yr retired SWA pilot, close observer of the 121 industry and since joining XO for the past 22 months, close observer and poster on this forum and other places.
I don't know who BC is nor if he even works here at XO. Some general observations:
1. He/she has posted a total of 4 times on APF...and he has deleted his original post...that tells you alot.
Food for thought: Does that make his/her posts less or more credible? The readers are assuming the pilot works at XO...how do you know? Could it be someone who is just wanting to stir up trouble and dissent? Overheard conversations in an FBO are great fodder or made up "she said, he said" makes for entertainment for some folks (bizarre I know) ..."hey look on this forum and see what I started." My recommendations, tap the brakes on assuming BC has any idea on what is really going on at XO. He/she is welcome to PM or post on here to provide more perspective. Happy to engage in meaningful debate/discussion.
2. BC Joined APF in Nov 2020. Lists himself as a "new hire".
I'm assuming he/she is as they say, "a new hire". Maybe they've been here for 10 yrs and are only just now venting...possible but not probable... I'm not trying to out anyone or embarrass anyone but wanted folks to understand anonymous forums are fine but one has to earn one's stripes to be "believable" IMHO. I've been posting since the predecessor of APF, flightinfo.com days beginning in '98 before I got hired at SWA. Sniffing out an "outlier" opinion versus a true “consensus” is something one just learns to do. Of course, if the reader (or in this case possibly the poster) is pre-determined to
1. dislike non-union shops
2. believe that all airline management is out to get pilots
3. pilots are an oppressed group and always underpaid regardless of the world around them
and many other preconceived ideas, then posts like BC are like manna from heaven. The "I told you so" has already cropped up in some of the replies.
I've included my comments to BC and to lurkers/other posters in red below.
Originally Posted by backcoursebob27
Anyone who applies needs to understand the current situation with vista. XO is a now a far cry from what it used to be and is headed down as fast as they can muster. Agree with the first part of the sentence, disagree 200% with the 2nd part!
Link to the history of XO in case you were interested.
The XO that Brad Stewart raised from the ashes in 2010 and merged with VJ in 2018 was different than when he first started; for the better as told by those who went through that time. Since the merger, changes have also occurred. Integrating two different cultures is not easy having done it with SWA and AirTran. I can only say what my experience has been for 22 months and what others tell me and it is clearly not what you described BC. Steps made since the VJ entry have been made to increase value and brand.
When XO joined with VJ in Oct '18, I was not on property and I assume you weren’t either BC so the culture was and is still being built upon.
From Oct 2018 to now let’s give a very brief and I mean very brief list of the challenges faced and met by the XO leadership, employees and amazing crews who had to continue operations while so much change was occurring.
1. Putting 2 new fleet types on certificates, indoctrination of new crews/employees, training of all of the above
2. New leadership coming in and observing all of this and determining the direction XO needed to head in to meet the objectives Flohr has for VJ/XO to be the top in the industry in customer service and satisfaction.
3. Move entire headquarters 3000 miles and hire/train 70% of a new employee force (non pilots/crew)
4. Both major certification inspections which consumes a lot of manpower and attention.
5. Covid, covid, covid
6. When leadership determined XO needed Light/medium airlift options, they chose RWA for assets. When you are off fleeting 30% of customers that is money being lost to others…decision made to keep it in house…I’d say that is wise. It may not help my personal seniority tomorrow or next year but more revenue gives companies options that cash strapped companies don’t have. That is a long range play, not short-range…how many pilots think long range? Next to none since we live day to day and at most week to week except when we are advising others on what they should or shouldn’t do! OBTW, RWA purchased in Nov 2020.
7. Acquiring Apollo/Talon brings 4000 clients into our tent, a mx facility, more mid, super and long range aircraft at a far cheaper rate than simply buying a fleet of used airplanes from brokers.
When you get hired, the most asked question is pay and what are the upgrade times? At XO, the X was under a year, the 300 was 1.5 when I was hired and no one said anything much differently but that was when every major was hiring. No one saw Covid coming either so are expectations for upgrades disrupted? Of course they are but that doesn’t mean things are heading downhill as you proclaim BC. My sense is this is the crux of the matter but maybe not.
All current pilot pay is frozen, and capped at ten year pay scale. Temporary as we are told and explained in other replies, see more below. As Paul Harvey use to say, “the rest of the story” …. let’s remember, ZERO FURLOUGHS, even some pilots who had left the company, been gone for more than 90 days, who were 121 furloughed and asked to come back and XO took them back! A company with declining culture doesn’t do that. Why only part of the story BC? As Biden would say, “Come on man!”.
Could they have cut salaries?
Of course, they could but our RoundTable (pilots) took initiatives to propose cost savings in creative ways and worked with management to keep pilots on board. Flt Ops leadership & Kevin convinced VJ pre-Covid XO pilots were worth it. Post covid, revenue dropped as we all know. One of the solutions for savings was Reduced flying (10 days a month, paid at ½ regular pay) which I was more than happy to take and nearly 20 others did too…worked great for me and others also…no one forced to, all voluntarily! That my friend is a “consensus”.
They tell us that once we achieve 3 consecutive months of 2018 flight hours and yield levels, they will give us our pay back. So during a time they could’ve simply cut pay and told us to pound sound, XO leadership chose to work with the RT, negotiate a metric to put our pay back to where it was if certain goals were made (so far they appear to be on track) and take more suggestions on how to save money…the RON committee with the help of the RT negotiated savings on our prime hotels that totaled nearly $1m…all to save a job for you BC since you were most likely near the bottom if “new hire” is correct… a simple ”thank you" might be appropriate..what do you say?
The general consensus is that they are using the pandemic to get concessions until our current MOU is up, then put everyone on their crappy vista pay scale. Hey BC, I guess I missed that survey…can you send me a link? NOTE To the lurkers/posters this type of “tell” when a poster uses “majority”, “Consensus”, “nearly all I talk too” in prefacing some unproveable statement should make the bells and whistles go off, move on to the next post. Again, you don’t even know if the poster works at the company they reflect. Interview 50 pilots on pay, work environment, you’ll get 50 opinions.
“
To achieve this, they will be creating a group of scabs (NOTE TO LURKERS: Whenever the “S” word is used, put that person on your ignore list…save yourself the few minutes you’ll never get back from reading anything they post. It is merely meant to inflame and beef up the “incredible misjustice” the poster is making a claim about)…that is using a “B” pay scale which no one really knows what it is (the inflammatory “B” scale comparison..we haven’t hired anyone under that scale and hopefully want have to…if things return to normal and metrics are met, we will find out but for no.
No one is on a “B” Scale that I’m aware of. again, the phrase “nobody knows what it is”, so that must mean not even cub reporter BC knows but he certainly sounds like he does, actuality it was spelled out in a memo signed by the RT reps and management…when we start hiring again, I’m sure it will be made very clear to those who are applying and coming here…if metrics continue to be met, no changes will need to apply to new pilots but we’ll see, right BC?)… but probably the vista pay scale: 75k for FO’s, CA pay at 120 until 5 years, then 123 until ten then capped at 129. NOTE TO LURKERS: Another qualifier, “probably”…he has no clue and neither do I..all speculation and for what reason? Too bad mouth a company he has been with for what I assume is a short time based upon my read of factors. One and only one week of vacation and training on days off. Maybe someone from the vista side can confirm if they are still training on days off. XO is not so we didn’t copy VJ…all their pilots were aware of that when they got hired…don’t imply something is to happen when you have no evidence it will.
They are pushing hard to get us to go to 15/13 and once they do this many will quit opening up the door for hiring said scabs who will undoubtedly be the people with prior DUI’s and busted checkrides. Let’s see if you lurkers have learned anything at this point. Pick out and post the “tells” in the previous statement.
1. The mysterious “they”, referenced twice if you didn’t get it the first time…in fact XO offered Reduce flying to save money and that wasn’t pushed, it was agreed to…provide the evidence of how pilots are going to be pushed from a 8/6 XO schedule to a 15/13? Anonymous messaged on your phone, notes left on your pillow, messages from dispatch, chem trails?
2. “quit”…yes, everyone is on the verge of quitting according to BC…yea right…so many job openings out there to run too and from a company that didn’t furlough (like others)
3. The “S” word again.
4. The bottom of the barrel analogy of those with busted checkrides and DUI, a good go-to descriptor that paints a skid row work environment…are you hoping to improve your seniority by encouraging everyone to quit? Pretty clever BC…well played.
Meanwhile we are flying as much if not more than ever, always mix a little truth in with your posts, nice touch…BTW, exceeding total revenue over last year by a large amount, just need to get the yield higher…why is making more money bad BC? with the awful uniforms XO had great uniforms…the new ones are like everyone else’s.white shirts are never easy…I loved flight suits AF, got used to ties, coats, eventually no hats at SWA…hard to give up the black but hey, if they keep paying me on the 6th and 21th I’ll wear what they have given to me free…BTW, never got free uniforms at SWA nor got a dry-cleaning allowance…I’ll use it now, never did before…cost of doing business.
Operations is not completely useless (the ‘ole drive by complaint/compliment…..to any of the hard-working folks in OCC/MX who may see any of BC’s BS, thanks for working so hard to keep the wheels on…OCC just reported a 97 % or more accuracy in one of the metrics that BC is complaining about…complaints were responded to and now that is fixed…are there other issues in ops that need to be worked out? Sure and there are process teams solving those problems. It never happens fast enough for pilots, right and BC you prove that point perfectly….sorry the “support team” isn’t as perfect as your last employees…I’m sure they threw you a huge going away party when you left as I’m sure you were everyone’s favorite!
, and our workload has increased tremendously having to check everything they do (yes, there are mistakes but I found that at SWA also but I thought we as the crew were supposed to check everything and when you found something, did you use it as a teaching moment ore merely complain about it? I guess when you were learning to fly your instructor felt he was so fortunate to fly with someone so gifted he could just relax in the right seat and never check what you were doing…the vast majority of the OCC folks were at home or had very limited time in the office due to COVID, learning a new job and getting trained by Zoom….yea that is an optimum teaching environment…how many times did you take the time to go over the mistakes with the other person and seek out the underlying cause of the misunderstanding?
You are basically on your own (it’s called Captain’s Authority, something I didn’t have at SWA on the scale I do here), and spend all day correcting ridiculous mistakes and oversights. OK lurkers, wake up and spot the “tell”…can you find it? They told us this would get better once the move happened but a year in its even worse than before. So, you’ve been here a year and everything is worse? Does that take in account the world we live in and that XO operates within? I equate the last 22 months to you walking into your car mechanic and saying I need a new engine, change the transmission, brakes but OBTW, you’ve got to do all of that while I’m driving the car!! The professionalism of the pilots, chief pilots, safety, mx and so many other folks who have worked overtime to make sure our customers and employees are safe with zero flight accidents/incident is a success story of monumental proportion but won’t be recognized except by those who were here making it happen. I’m proud to work besides these folks. Things have gotten better but BC, you aren’t going to upgrade as fast you may have thought and honestly, isn’t that the underlying issue?
This is not hype, or an exaggeration, (of course not…why would you exaggerate with the words you’ve used, “general consensus”, “scab” twice, “B scale”, “nearly all I talk too” …and yet to date, I don’t know of anyone who has left over any of the grave injustices you comment on
just know what you are getting into, as vistas true colors are coming through. NOTE TO BC: Merely because your seniority number is not increasing, doesn’t mean business decisions being made today won’t benefit you in the future is narrow minded. When SWA integrated with AirTran, pilots on both sides worked under different work rules for 3-5 years and pay didn’t automatically get equalized but eventually it did, before work rules. Ask yourself, did your grip/post increase or decrease the likelihood of accomplishing those goals? Do you not think management sees a disgruntled pilot (as I remind them, there is no guarantee you do work at XO?
Also, they have purchased two charter outfits while cutting our pay (my pay wasn’t cut, I volunteered to work “Reduced flying” but FO’s who didn’t sign up got paid the same. No bonuses starting for 1 yr but again, not surprising considering a drop in revenue that was off the charts…XO isn’t like Uncle Sam and can print money,and spent 500k/per plane to paint and refurb the 300’s Clients like the kind we fly demand and require a great appearance…again, money is so cheap to borrow, banks don’t loan money for salaries, they loan for capital expenditures, acquisitions that will lead to greater revenue…that will restore salaries and give us a basis for increases down the road…the last 2 months revenues have expanded dramatically. Wouldn’t you say that is a good thing and shows “they” are doing something right? Hard to swallow that pill I know…kind of breaks up the mood of “woe is me”. They successfully took one of the best 135 outfits to work for, and destroyed it. The culture is totally different now, and they are not really transparent and honest like they claim to be.
Link to the history of XO in case you were interested.
The XO that Brad Stewart raised from the ashes in 2010 and merged with VJ in 2018 was different than when he first started; for the better as told by those who went through that time. Since the merger, changes have also occurred. Integrating two different cultures is not easy having done it with SWA and AirTran. I can only say what my experience has been for 22 months and what others tell me and it is clearly not what you described BC. Steps made since the VJ entry have been made to increase value and brand.
When XO joined with VJ in Oct '18, I was not on property and I assume you weren’t either BC so the culture was and is still being built upon.
From Oct 2018 to now let’s give a very brief and I mean very brief list of the challenges faced and met by the XO leadership, employees and amazing crews who had to continue operations while so much change was occurring.
1. Putting 2 new fleet types on certificates, indoctrination of new crews/employees, training of all of the above
2. New leadership coming in and observing all of this and determining the direction XO needed to head in to meet the objectives Flohr has for VJ/XO to be the top in the industry in customer service and satisfaction.
3. Move entire headquarters 3000 miles and hire/train 70% of a new employee force (non pilots/crew)
4. Both major certification inspections which consumes a lot of manpower and attention.
5. Covid, covid, covid
6. When leadership determined XO needed Light/medium airlift options, they chose RWA for assets. When you are off fleeting 30% of customers that is money being lost to others…decision made to keep it in house…I’d say that is wise. It may not help my personal seniority tomorrow or next year but more revenue gives companies options that cash strapped companies don’t have. That is a long range play, not short-range…how many pilots think long range? Next to none since we live day to day and at most week to week except when we are advising others on what they should or shouldn’t do! OBTW, RWA purchased in Nov 2020.
7. Acquiring Apollo/Talon brings 4000 clients into our tent, a mx facility, more mid, super and long range aircraft at a far cheaper rate than simply buying a fleet of used airplanes from brokers.
When you get hired, the most asked question is pay and what are the upgrade times? At XO, the X was under a year, the 300 was 1.5 when I was hired and no one said anything much differently but that was when every major was hiring. No one saw Covid coming either so are expectations for upgrades disrupted? Of course they are but that doesn’t mean things are heading downhill as you proclaim BC. My sense is this is the crux of the matter but maybe not.
All current pilot pay is frozen, and capped at ten year pay scale. Temporary as we are told and explained in other replies, see more below. As Paul Harvey use to say, “the rest of the story” …. let’s remember, ZERO FURLOUGHS, even some pilots who had left the company, been gone for more than 90 days, who were 121 furloughed and asked to come back and XO took them back! A company with declining culture doesn’t do that. Why only part of the story BC? As Biden would say, “Come on man!”.
Could they have cut salaries?
Of course, they could but our RoundTable (pilots) took initiatives to propose cost savings in creative ways and worked with management to keep pilots on board. Flt Ops leadership & Kevin convinced VJ pre-Covid XO pilots were worth it. Post covid, revenue dropped as we all know. One of the solutions for savings was Reduced flying (10 days a month, paid at ½ regular pay) which I was more than happy to take and nearly 20 others did too…worked great for me and others also…no one forced to, all voluntarily! That my friend is a “consensus”.
They tell us that once we achieve 3 consecutive months of 2018 flight hours and yield levels, they will give us our pay back. So during a time they could’ve simply cut pay and told us to pound sound, XO leadership chose to work with the RT, negotiate a metric to put our pay back to where it was if certain goals were made (so far they appear to be on track) and take more suggestions on how to save money…the RON committee with the help of the RT negotiated savings on our prime hotels that totaled nearly $1m…all to save a job for you BC since you were most likely near the bottom if “new hire” is correct… a simple ”thank you" might be appropriate..what do you say?
The general consensus is that they are using the pandemic to get concessions until our current MOU is up, then put everyone on their crappy vista pay scale. Hey BC, I guess I missed that survey…can you send me a link? NOTE To the lurkers/posters this type of “tell” when a poster uses “majority”, “Consensus”, “nearly all I talk too” in prefacing some unproveable statement should make the bells and whistles go off, move on to the next post. Again, you don’t even know if the poster works at the company they reflect. Interview 50 pilots on pay, work environment, you’ll get 50 opinions.
“
To achieve this, they will be creating a group of scabs (NOTE TO LURKERS: Whenever the “S” word is used, put that person on your ignore list…save yourself the few minutes you’ll never get back from reading anything they post. It is merely meant to inflame and beef up the “incredible misjustice” the poster is making a claim about)…that is using a “B” pay scale which no one really knows what it is (the inflammatory “B” scale comparison..we haven’t hired anyone under that scale and hopefully want have to…if things return to normal and metrics are met, we will find out but for no.
No one is on a “B” Scale that I’m aware of. again, the phrase “nobody knows what it is”, so that must mean not even cub reporter BC knows but he certainly sounds like he does, actuality it was spelled out in a memo signed by the RT reps and management…when we start hiring again, I’m sure it will be made very clear to those who are applying and coming here…if metrics continue to be met, no changes will need to apply to new pilots but we’ll see, right BC?)… but probably the vista pay scale: 75k for FO’s, CA pay at 120 until 5 years, then 123 until ten then capped at 129. NOTE TO LURKERS: Another qualifier, “probably”…he has no clue and neither do I..all speculation and for what reason? Too bad mouth a company he has been with for what I assume is a short time based upon my read of factors. One and only one week of vacation and training on days off. Maybe someone from the vista side can confirm if they are still training on days off. XO is not so we didn’t copy VJ…all their pilots were aware of that when they got hired…don’t imply something is to happen when you have no evidence it will.
They are pushing hard to get us to go to 15/13 and once they do this many will quit opening up the door for hiring said scabs who will undoubtedly be the people with prior DUI’s and busted checkrides. Let’s see if you lurkers have learned anything at this point. Pick out and post the “tells” in the previous statement.
1. The mysterious “they”, referenced twice if you didn’t get it the first time…in fact XO offered Reduce flying to save money and that wasn’t pushed, it was agreed to…provide the evidence of how pilots are going to be pushed from a 8/6 XO schedule to a 15/13? Anonymous messaged on your phone, notes left on your pillow, messages from dispatch, chem trails?
2. “quit”…yes, everyone is on the verge of quitting according to BC…yea right…so many job openings out there to run too and from a company that didn’t furlough (like others)
3. The “S” word again.
4. The bottom of the barrel analogy of those with busted checkrides and DUI, a good go-to descriptor that paints a skid row work environment…are you hoping to improve your seniority by encouraging everyone to quit? Pretty clever BC…well played.
Meanwhile we are flying as much if not more than ever, always mix a little truth in with your posts, nice touch…BTW, exceeding total revenue over last year by a large amount, just need to get the yield higher…why is making more money bad BC? with the awful uniforms XO had great uniforms…the new ones are like everyone else’s.white shirts are never easy…I loved flight suits AF, got used to ties, coats, eventually no hats at SWA…hard to give up the black but hey, if they keep paying me on the 6th and 21th I’ll wear what they have given to me free…BTW, never got free uniforms at SWA nor got a dry-cleaning allowance…I’ll use it now, never did before…cost of doing business.
Operations is not completely useless (the ‘ole drive by complaint/compliment…..to any of the hard-working folks in OCC/MX who may see any of BC’s BS, thanks for working so hard to keep the wheels on…OCC just reported a 97 % or more accuracy in one of the metrics that BC is complaining about…complaints were responded to and now that is fixed…are there other issues in ops that need to be worked out? Sure and there are process teams solving those problems. It never happens fast enough for pilots, right and BC you prove that point perfectly….sorry the “support team” isn’t as perfect as your last employees…I’m sure they threw you a huge going away party when you left as I’m sure you were everyone’s favorite!
, and our workload has increased tremendously having to check everything they do (yes, there are mistakes but I found that at SWA also but I thought we as the crew were supposed to check everything and when you found something, did you use it as a teaching moment ore merely complain about it? I guess when you were learning to fly your instructor felt he was so fortunate to fly with someone so gifted he could just relax in the right seat and never check what you were doing…the vast majority of the OCC folks were at home or had very limited time in the office due to COVID, learning a new job and getting trained by Zoom….yea that is an optimum teaching environment…how many times did you take the time to go over the mistakes with the other person and seek out the underlying cause of the misunderstanding?
You are basically on your own (it’s called Captain’s Authority, something I didn’t have at SWA on the scale I do here), and spend all day correcting ridiculous mistakes and oversights. OK lurkers, wake up and spot the “tell”…can you find it? They told us this would get better once the move happened but a year in its even worse than before. So, you’ve been here a year and everything is worse? Does that take in account the world we live in and that XO operates within? I equate the last 22 months to you walking into your car mechanic and saying I need a new engine, change the transmission, brakes but OBTW, you’ve got to do all of that while I’m driving the car!! The professionalism of the pilots, chief pilots, safety, mx and so many other folks who have worked overtime to make sure our customers and employees are safe with zero flight accidents/incident is a success story of monumental proportion but won’t be recognized except by those who were here making it happen. I’m proud to work besides these folks. Things have gotten better but BC, you aren’t going to upgrade as fast you may have thought and honestly, isn’t that the underlying issue?
This is not hype, or an exaggeration, (of course not…why would you exaggerate with the words you’ve used, “general consensus”, “scab” twice, “B scale”, “nearly all I talk too” …and yet to date, I don’t know of anyone who has left over any of the grave injustices you comment on
just know what you are getting into, as vistas true colors are coming through. NOTE TO BC: Merely because your seniority number is not increasing, doesn’t mean business decisions being made today won’t benefit you in the future is narrow minded. When SWA integrated with AirTran, pilots on both sides worked under different work rules for 3-5 years and pay didn’t automatically get equalized but eventually it did, before work rules. Ask yourself, did your grip/post increase or decrease the likelihood of accomplishing those goals? Do you not think management sees a disgruntled pilot (as I remind them, there is no guarantee you do work at XO?
Also, they have purchased two charter outfits while cutting our pay (my pay wasn’t cut, I volunteered to work “Reduced flying” but FO’s who didn’t sign up got paid the same. No bonuses starting for 1 yr but again, not surprising considering a drop in revenue that was off the charts…XO isn’t like Uncle Sam and can print money,and spent 500k/per plane to paint and refurb the 300’s Clients like the kind we fly demand and require a great appearance…again, money is so cheap to borrow, banks don’t loan money for salaries, they loan for capital expenditures, acquisitions that will lead to greater revenue…that will restore salaries and give us a basis for increases down the road…the last 2 months revenues have expanded dramatically. Wouldn’t you say that is a good thing and shows “they” are doing something right? Hard to swallow that pill I know…kind of breaks up the mood of “woe is me”. They successfully took one of the best 135 outfits to work for, and destroyed it. The culture is totally different now, and they are not really transparent and honest like they claim to be.
03-13-2021, 04:39 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Poolside
Posts: 534
Current XOJET employee here. There is very little I can add to the chorus of voices (especially as he exhibits his usual descriptive eloquence) showing that BCB27’s opinion was an outlier. However, I will make it a little more personal:
-Kevin, our President, has faced incredible challenges, only exacerbated by a global pandemic. I for one have been extraordinarily impressed with his business savvy, open communication, and willingness to work with the Roundtable to achieve measurable goals with minimal pain to the pilots. The fact that XOJET never furloughed any pilots during the last year, but instead offered a voluntary reduced schedule and even brought back pilots from other furlough situations, speaks volumes to me about the care and concern for our families and livelihoods.
-To say that Tyler, our DO, stepped into a hornet’s nest of activity would be an understatement. The move to Florida, massive hiring/training in all operational departments, integration of systems across companies, borders and time zones, all while dealing with COVID. Any of these would have been challenging, but together they must’ve felt overwhelming. And yet, he continued to work on the challenges while ensuring a safe operation in which I always felt I had his support on the line.
-Jay, our CP, also has excelled at keeping the main thing the main thing. Keeping us informed weekly, addressing each concern, including some as surprising as a rise in dog “issues”, and protecting us pilots from as much BS as was humanly possible really set him apart. When COVID personally affected me, the entire CPO went above and beyond in helping, and ensuring that my only concern was protecting my loved ones and getting better. Pay was covered, any health or personal needs were addressed, and I knew absolutely that only one phone call was required to get any help needed. Tough times like that are when you truly learn what kind of an organization you work for, and I am not about to give that up!
Pilots will *****. I get it. It’s rare that anyone likes a uniform, but if that’s what the brand calls for, I will wear it proudly. No one likes a pay freeze, but it beats the hell out of a furlough, mandatory reduced schedule or permanent layoffs. Do I wish schedulers knew my every need or desire without me telling them? Sure, but it’s not realistic.
So ***** if you want BCB27, but I’m thrilled to be working at XOJET and am very proud of the job that leadership and the Roundtable are doing!!!
-Kevin, our President, has faced incredible challenges, only exacerbated by a global pandemic. I for one have been extraordinarily impressed with his business savvy, open communication, and willingness to work with the Roundtable to achieve measurable goals with minimal pain to the pilots. The fact that XOJET never furloughed any pilots during the last year, but instead offered a voluntary reduced schedule and even brought back pilots from other furlough situations, speaks volumes to me about the care and concern for our families and livelihoods.
-To say that Tyler, our DO, stepped into a hornet’s nest of activity would be an understatement. The move to Florida, massive hiring/training in all operational departments, integration of systems across companies, borders and time zones, all while dealing with COVID. Any of these would have been challenging, but together they must’ve felt overwhelming. And yet, he continued to work on the challenges while ensuring a safe operation in which I always felt I had his support on the line.
-Jay, our CP, also has excelled at keeping the main thing the main thing. Keeping us informed weekly, addressing each concern, including some as surprising as a rise in dog “issues”, and protecting us pilots from as much BS as was humanly possible really set him apart. When COVID personally affected me, the entire CPO went above and beyond in helping, and ensuring that my only concern was protecting my loved ones and getting better. Pay was covered, any health or personal needs were addressed, and I knew absolutely that only one phone call was required to get any help needed. Tough times like that are when you truly learn what kind of an organization you work for, and I am not about to give that up!
Pilots will *****. I get it. It’s rare that anyone likes a uniform, but if that’s what the brand calls for, I will wear it proudly. No one likes a pay freeze, but it beats the hell out of a furlough, mandatory reduced schedule or permanent layoffs. Do I wish schedulers knew my every need or desire without me telling them? Sure, but it’s not realistic.
So ***** if you want BCB27, but I’m thrilled to be working at XOJET and am very proud of the job that leadership and the Roundtable are doing!!!
03-13-2021, 06:25 AM
#27
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 2
Hello All,
I joined to respond to the cowardly post by BC. I’m not into posting on these forums but I can’t stand by while this person trash talks our company and possibly destroys what our RT, CPO have worked so hard to achieve. First off, I’ve been at XO for almost 7 years and I still love coming to work. This company has been nothing less than amazing to me. I have gone through many personal challenges ( health, family) and they have met and exceeded my every need in those times and the support has been incredible. It gives a sense of family. To KT TS, SR,JH, SK,RD,JS and our RT, thank you for what you do for us And for fighting so hard for us . In these times where people are losing their jobs, y,all have made it possible to keep ours and we are so grateful for that. The person who posted this cowardly, false , rant does DEFINITELY not speak for me or anyone in this pilot group.. I’ll keep it short as most my colleagues have made some incredible post in response to this jack***. Again Thank you XO for making this a great place to work and I look forward to many more years at this company!!
I joined to respond to the cowardly post by BC. I’m not into posting on these forums but I can’t stand by while this person trash talks our company and possibly destroys what our RT, CPO have worked so hard to achieve. First off, I’ve been at XO for almost 7 years and I still love coming to work. This company has been nothing less than amazing to me. I have gone through many personal challenges ( health, family) and they have met and exceeded my every need in those times and the support has been incredible. It gives a sense of family. To KT TS, SR,JH, SK,RD,JS and our RT, thank you for what you do for us And for fighting so hard for us . In these times where people are losing their jobs, y,all have made it possible to keep ours and we are so grateful for that. The person who posted this cowardly, false , rant does DEFINITELY not speak for me or anyone in this pilot group.. I’ll keep it short as most my colleagues have made some incredible post in response to this jack***. Again Thank you XO for making this a great place to work and I look forward to many more years at this company!!
03-13-2021, 06:09 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 56
Well said Chase.
I've been here a few years. It's an awesome place, the people are second to none.
I kept my job, my pay stayed where it was, while senior management took pay cuts. To me, sounds like they deserve a handshake and our appreciation. I know they've gotten both from me. (Elbows I guess it was with the Bug floating around)
Are there growing pains? Yes. Are we overcoming them? I think so. We are working to build something better, together.
Those who want everything laid out for them, walk up to the jet fire it up, go, and they need not apply / be here. That is not what we do. In ANY facet of the job. Do others get paid more to do less? Sure, but they've got all that money and time and somehow they sure are miserable every time I talk to them, if they will even acknowledge me.
I don't own the jets, so I'll wear what they tell me to wear. Pink tutu's? If that's what the customer wants. I'll do it.
If we see something wrong we fix it, or offer to help get it fixed.
THAT is the XO way, or at least the way I want it to be. Leave it better than you found it for when (if) you move on.
Not go off on an anonymous internet forum.
I've been here a few years. It's an awesome place, the people are second to none.
I kept my job, my pay stayed where it was, while senior management took pay cuts. To me, sounds like they deserve a handshake and our appreciation. I know they've gotten both from me. (Elbows I guess it was with the Bug floating around)
Are there growing pains? Yes. Are we overcoming them? I think so. We are working to build something better, together.
Those who want everything laid out for them, walk up to the jet fire it up, go, and they need not apply / be here. That is not what we do. In ANY facet of the job. Do others get paid more to do less? Sure, but they've got all that money and time and somehow they sure are miserable every time I talk to them, if they will even acknowledge me.
I don't own the jets, so I'll wear what they tell me to wear. Pink tutu's? If that's what the customer wants. I'll do it.
If we see something wrong we fix it, or offer to help get it fixed.
THAT is the XO way, or at least the way I want it to be. Leave it better than you found it for when (if) you move on.
Not go off on an anonymous internet forum.
03-13-2021, 06:12 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 44
Current employee here at XOJET. Perspective is everything and if one has never worked outside the United States, then I'd suggest you start there. To know what challenges we have faced and have overcome with great pride is remarkable. The list of positives this organization provides as an employer are more than I have ever had in my +20 year career working in the aviation sector. It is obvious to me that remarks made by someone who has no experience in growing a company. I stand firm in this reply and hold the line for this company to serve with excellence each day, I've been given the privilege to represent XOJET.
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