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Old 04-19-2008, 07:23 PM   #51  
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perspective is a beautiful thing...
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Old 04-19-2008, 09:16 PM   #52  
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You sure did set your sights high my friend. Let's see: you say you have almost 3 years at NJA, which means you joined the ranks when starting pay was about 26k. Wow, you were an ambitious young man.......
What happened to you is probably what happened to many of us at NJA: we stumbled upon this company after being furloughed when almost no other carriers were hiring pilots with our qualifications. So only one word comes to mind when you gripe about your long upgrade and mediocre pay (and only compared to SWA, FEDEX, and UPS): HYPOCRITE.
Don't cry about how much you make and instead look at how much the union has achieved for us. I came to NJA out of desperation and never planned on finishing my career here. Now, it is a whole different situation, and I have no desire to leave. So be thankful for what you have, because it is a whole lot more than what you originally settled for!!!
As for paying off your house in 5 years at age 28, I can't see how you are struggling in the least. Last I checked, I got 28 years worth of payments on my home!
And on a final note, your upgrade will be occurring within the next 2 years if you truly have been here nearly 3 years. My friend was hired exactly 3 years ago and upgraded a few months ago, like you mention, things have slowed down, but that is mainly due to the PIC merry go round that was previously discussed. So hold on, you will get your hard earned fourth stripe soon my friend (no sarcasm intended - well maybe just a little).
Bet ur a captain making over 100k, how long was ur upgrade and how long have u been making of 100k?

I will agree to disagree, hopefully the next contract not short the junior guys. like of the 05 contract did.

And as far as paying of my house in five years, Im able to do that because I have my own business that affords me to. My average aviation income for the last ten years is 42k. Horrible, in my eyes. I made 12k as a 1900 driver. I only have 10 yrs of flying under may belt, but u guys are own worst enemies, I strive for better without it affecting my professionalism, but i get sh1t on for wanting more.

Hypocrite
, how are I a hypocrite? Im just saying we are worth more. And how have I been whining? You guys Im too damn tired from my 13.5 hr day and my 10 hr turn to type anymore. Peace im outtttiii.
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Old 04-20-2008, 05:54 AM   #53  
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Bet ur a captain making over 100k, how long was ur upgrade and how long have u been making of 100k?

I will agree to disagree, hopefully the next contract not short the junior guys. like of the 05 contract did.

Guess again. I've been at the company for only 2 years........... The 2005 CBA did short the junior guys and that's why it was so quickly fixed with the 2007 IBB. But seriously, how many aviation companies have unions that have been as proactive as ours gettings things accomplished in terms of pay and QOL???
I have no beef with you wanting more, I would love the same thing, but we need to keep an open mind and understand how far we have already come. Netjets used to be looked down upon just a few years ago, these message boards only demonstrate how the world has turned upside down in the last few years.
On a final note, the best thing we can do as a pilot group at NJA is support our union to the fullest, and most importantly, to take care of the product and provide our customers with the very best, so that the product can then take care of us.............
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Old 04-20-2008, 03:19 PM   #54  
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Again how am I a hypocrite?
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Old 04-20-2008, 04:49 PM   #55  
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For the amount of work we do compared to UPS, FedEX, and SWA, we need to be at least on par with there pay. And as far as QOL why shouldn't a 20 yr guy have a better qol than a 10 yr guy? Would you really be wanting to bust ur hump on a 7 day tour or more if you didn't have to at the age of 40, 50, 60?

I may have more questions than answers, but maybe you should ask yourself do you know what your worth? I sure do and its definitely more than 70k a year.

And at the minumum we should be around 90k for a 3rd fo on the 7n7 and 5 yr captains pay should be at 130k on the 7n7.
Because a hypocrite gets himself hired and stays at a company that offers him mediocre pay and then suddenly spouts out how much more he's worth after he gets an unscheduled pay raise........

Like I said, Kman, I have no beef with you. You are absolutely correct about striving to get more, but you need to be more adamant about how good we have it at Netjets before you just start ranting about pay rates and upgrade times. We are both fortunate to be here right now because I can assure you new applicants are being interviewed far more thoroughly and competitively than either one of us were. Just look to your three favorite carriers and try and get an interview with them (not that they're interviewing at this time anyways...)

As for making as much as those other pilots at FedEX, UPS, and SWA, I think you need to realize they generate more revenue than our little passenger trips ever could (unless you throw in some long haul Falcon, and Gulfstream trips), so it's hard to say that we are worth as much as they are. We are only worth as much as the revenue we can generate for the company. However, I do agree: we are worth more, but first we'll have to prove it.
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Old 04-20-2008, 07:38 PM   #56  
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I was hired right before the contract 05, I took a calculated risk. Upgrades at the time was under two years. I came because I knew it was getting better, unless the nja guys striked, I knew pay raises were coming. Unscheduled pay raise huh? The 07 ta was about fixing the 05 agreement and helping the company get more productivity out of us and fixing the new hires that got screwed with basing for the previous two years. Do you really think the guys like u and me would have stuck around for 44k for 5-6 yrs waiting for an upgrade? And for a newhire, do u think guys would stick around for 7-9 years waiting for an upgrade unless they raised the pay? If you ask me the company got more out of the deal then we did. They HAD to raise the pay and basing so that they could attract the cream. And when is whining and spouting equal to striving for more. Have I once said this is a sh1tty job?

"but you need to be more adamant about how good we have it at Netjets before you just start ranting about pay rates and upgrade times"

Why, there are plenty of guys that already do that. Do I have to repeat what is already known? We have a good job with great benefits? Can I start to rant know?

Ranting? How was I ranting? Jezz, its like I insulting the almighty himself. You guys are way too sensitive about ssomebody with a different opinion.

rant (rnt)
v. rant·ed, rant·ing, rants
v.intr.
To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.
v.tr.

A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence

Wow u give me a lot of credit, didn't know my posting was so profound.


And as far as SWA, FedEX, and UPS, I currently short of the PIC requirements by about 200 hrs. One of the reasons I left my job at the time was the upgrade time was much better then where I was. I didn't stumble on to anything. I have busted my asz to get where I am at, I have no beef for you except that you call people names and can't back it up. I agree with proving that we our worth more, but my level of professionalism and work ethic have not changed since I have been here, I always give 100 percent to our owners and card holders and will continue to do the same until I leave.

So, how do we prove we are worth more? Haven't we already proved that we capable of making money, when the company said we couldn't make money with the 05 raises, were they lying to our faces or were they just spouting off and whining?

Last edited by kman; 04-20-2008 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:39 AM   #57  
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Please stop this thread.
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Old 04-21-2008, 05:32 AM   #58  
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Please stop this thread.
Why? I'm having a blast reading the whining! For a guy at a company where we hear a lot about NetJets, it's entertaining to hear the murmuring beneath the quiet exterior.

By the way, I am confident that kman is not representative of NetJet pilots. Most are probably happy to have one of the best jobs in the industry. And most sound much more professional and literate. Kman, this isn't an IM or text message; "u" is not a word.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:00 AM   #59  
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Kman, I'm 29 and was hired around the same time as you. I was also going to use this place as a stepping stone initially, and now I'm staying.

You may not try to come across as whining, but it sounds like it. Just be glad you're not getting shot at in Iraq, for less pay.

Things here will continue to get better. I have bros in my guard unit that fly at the others mentioned. The grass is definitely not always greener. If you want to go those places, it's going to be another 2-4 years anyway.
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Old 04-21-2008, 09:31 AM   #60  
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Kman, I'm 29 and was hired around the same time as you. I was also going to use this place as a stepping stone initially, and now I'm staying.

You may not try to come across as whining, but it sounds like it. Just be glad you're not getting shot at in Iraq, for less pay.

Things here will continue to get better. I have bros in my guard unit that fly at the others mentioned. The grass is definitely not always greener. If you want to go those places, it's going to be another 2-4 years anyway.
Thanks for your service brother,and amen to all of the above.
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