Go Back   Airline Pilot Central Forums - Find your next job as a Pilot > >
Fractional NetJets, FlexJet, etc
 

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-16-2008, 06:53 PM   #41  
New Hire
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman View Post
Wow you guys amaze me. Whats wrong with being well paid? Im sure we could all live on 70k if we had to. But why not strive for more? And who is bitter and unhappy my life is great, but wouldn't it be nicer with an extra 30k in your bank?

And Kdub, how long have your worked for NJ? How the rest of the world does it? Do you think about the starving kids in the world every time you sit down for a meal? Maybe every dime over 70k you make you should donate to a charity?

What did it take for you to get your job? Was it easy? Maybe we should take a pay cut, because we all don't need anything more than 70k.

And why do so many pilots undervalue the price we pay to get where we are?

Did any of us land our job by sure luck or was it determination, hard work, education, debt, time away from family, sweat and tears? We could have all choose a path that was easier, more stable, with the ability to come home every night, but we didn't.

We all gave up and constantly give up a lot to get and stay where we are, why can't we be on par with the other side of aviation?

Is 50k lbs of cargo more valuable than a fortune 500 ceo?

You may think 70k at as 8 yr fo is fine and dandy, but I choose to think its not. And if we all carried the attitude of don't rock the boat and we should just be happy with what we got we would never see another raise is our lives.

Why is it that a ups or swa fo is so much more valuable than a NJA fo? Why shouldn't the QOL and time off get better with seniority? I got over 25 yrs of flying at NJA left (till age 60) if i so choose. Why can't I want more for me and my pilot brothers and sisters? For the amount of work we do compared to UPS, FedEX, and SWA, we need to be at least on par with there pay. And as far as QOL why shouldn't a 20 yr guy have a better qol than a 10 yr guy? Would you really be wanting to bust ur hump on a 7 day tour or more if you didn't have to at the age of 40, 50, 60?

I may have more questions than answers, but maybe you should ask yourself do you know what your worth? I sure do and its definitely more than 70k a year.

And at the minumum we should be around 90k for a 3rd fo on the 7n7 and 5 yr captains pay should be at 130k on the 7n7.
Wow, you guys b!tched because you weren't making 100k in the fifth year as PIC. Now it's 130k. Every last one of you must be a Sky God. I'd feel blessed to be in your presence at any FBO around the country.

P.S. There are a few Netjets guys out there that aren't full of themselves. The above statement doesn't apply to you.
2222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 07:31 PM   #42  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 53
Default

wow, how low self esteem do u have? How am I full of myself? Being well paid I guess relates to being a skygod and full of myself. I guess the pay raises set off for Flex and CS are a bad thing right? What happens when NJA gets a raise? Others follow. You guys make me sick. We (all of the prof. pilots) deal with so much [email protected] to get where we are, why cant we strive for a great QOL and Pay? The Fracs are finally catching up to the Majors 50% pay cut contracts, and I get b!tched out by every other guy that has the just be greatful attitude. What is so wrong with raising the bar? Don't we deserve it?
kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 08:11 PM   #43  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 84
Default

You can be happy with what you have and still want more. Nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't turn into bitter hate and discontent. I don't think kman came off as bitter and discontent. Maybe a little overzealous though. There is a market price for everything and you guys just have to do your part make sure your market price goes up before the next contract negotiation. Good luck.
Cooperd0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 09:10 PM   #44  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 53
Default

You guys make me laugh, I truly see how much u vaule ur work, education, time and self. Why do u guys act like I insulted ur mother? Should I feel bad that I make a decent living? And maybe you should check ur numbers about the 1/15 of one percent.

Im in a very stable job, just finished paying off my almost all my loans, school,cc, and planning to pay my house off with in 5 yrs. And to top it off I have a great beautiful woman who loves and supports me. My life is great.

But I would still be in a huge whole if i just relied on my flying income. AGAIN, what is wrong with striving for more? Maybe your one of those guys that has the dont worry be happy attitudes, but i rather plan for my kids educations, be set for retirement, and be happy. And I tell u what 70k aint going to let that happen.

Im 28, and have set my sights high, I would like to be financially sound for when I start to have kids. My goal is to have my kids education paid for before they start college, so that they don't have to be burdened with 80k in student loans like i was. You guys make me sound like the devil, just because I think we deserve more.

Like a wise man once told me always plan for the worst and hope for the best. Im just hoping we can we all can raise the bar again so that we can make it a bit easier to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

oh yeah, WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2008, 10:09 PM   #45  
Gets Weekends Off
 
WAFP's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Freddy driver
Posts: 69
Default

I am sort of lucky when it comes to compensation. I fly for the AF and with as much travel as I do I make just over $100k a year and have only been flying for 5 years. That is fairly competitive, but if I was in a place to ask for more (Union) then I would.

There is nothing wrong with wanting more, like I said it is the American way.

I would trade my mil pay to be flying for NJ as a first year though. Much better QOL.

WAFP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 06:49 AM   #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman View Post
Maybe u misread my post. I stated 90k on the 7n7. Why can't you guys read? Even with the columbus, is that going to be a class 4 a/c? If its not the pay would still be the same as an ultra? So a columbus fo on yr eight pay is what on the 7n7? 70k ish.

And you act like we give nothing in return for our TA, maybe u should do some research and think twice about the company just giving us more bases and raises out of the goodness of there hearts.

How many g's position do u think there will be? there has been about what 4 positions this year? And what about 900 sic's on propert? And where did u get the a 67% raise? I went from 44k to about 58kwhen the ta passed. My math is pretty bad but thats not 67%. And when did I say we were unfairly treated or something is owed to me? All Im going to hear from now on is, "well if u don't like it quit or go somewhere else." No, If a better opportunity shows up I take it, but until then I going to try to add Pay and QOL for all NJA pilots.

I just want to strive for more, and all i get is static and don't rock the boat responses from u guys. Maybe we should just wait and let the company give another raise out of the goodness of there heart. Cheeeeeerrrsss right back ya.
Never let it be said I didn't own up to a mistake. You went from 44 to 63K...third year pay. Only a 45% give or take a few points, raise. The union negotiated that, the company didn't just give it to you. Maybe your reading skills can be worked on during your 7 off. The Columbia will be over 40K gross weight, there is no "class 4" aircraft anymore as there are no aircraft classes. If you focus on the owner, he will talk about his experiences to his friends, they become owners, we get more aircraft, you upgrade quicker, the company makes more profit, we negotiate better rates. See how the logic works?

Nah, much easier to cry about not getting paid enough.
TimSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 07:05 AM   #47  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman View Post
You guys make me laugh, I truly see how much u vaule ur work, education, time and self. Why do u guys act like I insulted ur mother? Should I feel bad that I make a decent living? And maybe you should check ur numbers about the 1/15 of one percent.

Im in a very stable job, just finished paying off my almost all my loans, school,cc, and planning to pay my house off with in 5 yrs. And to top it off I have a great beautiful woman who loves and supports me. My life is great.

But I would still be in a huge whole if i just relied on my flying income. AGAIN, what is wrong with striving for more? Maybe your one of those guys that has the dont worry be happy attitudes, but i rather plan for my kids educations, be set for retirement, and be happy. And I tell u what 70k aint going to let that happen.

Im 28, and have set my sights high, I would like to be financially sound for when I start to have kids. My goal is to have my kids education paid for before they start college, so that they don't have to be burdened with 80k in student loans like i was. You guys make me sound like the devil, just because I think we deserve more.

Like a wise man once told me always plan for the worst and hope for the best. Im just hoping we can we all can raise the bar again so that we can make it a bit easier to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

oh yeah, WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

80K student loans and an attitude, hhmmmmm.....

Your accounting skills need work too. I have accomplished everything you have and have done it on 70K a year. Many years on less than that. What bothers me about your post is the entitlement attitude. You think you are worth 200K a year but the company does not agree. It is called a marketplace. Your compensation is the settled worth of your services negotiated by the union and the company. You don't like it? Go find someone who pays you what your worth. Otherwise increase the VALUE of YOUR service so YOUR union has hard numbers to negotiate BETTER compensation. It really is that easy. Work hard and give the company a reason behind your arguement.

Those that have good reasons behind their arguements:
UPS- makes $1 billion a QUARTER
FedEx- makes approx $1 billion a year
SWA- has not lost money in any quarter since 1991 while it's peers went bankrupt.

We have shown our services to be of greater value than the teamsters or the company thought. Both entities thought NJ would not make money at our 2005 rates. WE the pilots (including you, kman) have provided a product in demand and the company is profitable. Pay and work rules here have progressed extremely quickly if you look at where this pilot group was 5 years ago. It is not a "don't rock the boat and be grateful" attitude. It is a "know when to peck your fights" attitude. Right now it is in our interests to work with the company. Our current contract is negotiable in 2013. You need to switch from "fight the company for every last penny contract" mode to "professional" mode. At least in your previous posts you alluded to having the capability to express professionalism. Now is the time to show it.
TimSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2008, 09:25 AM   #48  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Citation Driver
Posts: 103
Default

Kman, I certainly don't mean to be inflammatory. I definitely do not fault a person for striving to achieve more. I am striving for more, and for improvement in all areas. I have much work left to do, and I realize that we are either trying to move up, or allowing ourselves to slide back. There is no staying the same. I applaud you for your efforts toward personal improvement.

Please understand that I'm trying to help with a different perspective. We can strive for more AND be happy where we are while doing it. Being angry, or bitter, or dissatisfied, or greedy, or whatever you are feeling right now (only you know which applies) only hurts you, the folks around you, and the job you are doing now. It helps nobody. You are in the top fraction of 1% wage earners in the entire world - a visit to this site will take less than one minute, and may help gain a little perspective with how far we've already come, and how luck we truly are to be where we are right now. All the best.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/how.html
Kdub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2008, 12:37 PM   #49  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSmith View Post
80K student loans and an attitude, hhmmmmm.....

Your accounting skills need work too. I have accomplished everything you have and have done it on 70K a year. Many years on less than that. What bothers me about your post is the entitlement attitude. You think you are worth 200K a year but the company does not agree. It is called a marketplace. Your compensation is the settled worth of your services negotiated by the union and the company. You don't like it? Go find someone who pays you what your worth. Otherwise increase the VALUE of YOUR service so YOUR union has hard numbers to negotiate BETTER compensation. It really is that easy. Work hard and give the company a reason behind your arguement.

Those that have good reasons behind their arguements:
UPS- makes $1 billion a QUARTER
FedEx- makes approx $1 billion a year
SWA- has not lost money in any quarter since 1991 while it's peers went bankrupt.

We have shown our services to be of greater value than the teamsters or the company thought. Both entities thought NJ would not make money at our 2005 rates. WE the pilots (including you, kman) have provided a product in demand and the company is profitable. Pay and work rules here have progressed extremely quickly if you look at where this pilot group was 5 years ago. It is not a "don't rock the boat and be grateful" attitude. It is a "know when to peck your fights" attitude. Right now it is in our interests to work with the company. Our current contract is negotiable in 2013. You need to switch from "fight the company for every last penny contract" mode to "professional" mode. At least in your previous posts you alluded to having the capability to express professionalism. Now is the time to show it.
How have I been fighting the company? I have been and will always be a proffessional at my job, I bust my *** everyweek, to make sure i can do every thing I can to make our owners happy. How does striving for more equate non professionalism? You guys seem to think we can't be professional and push for more, I say we can.
kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 08:51 AM   #50  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: CL350
Posts: 125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kman View Post
You guys make me laugh, I truly see how much u vaule ur work, education, time and self. Why do u guys act like I insulted ur mother? Should I feel bad that I make a decent living? And maybe you should check ur numbers about the 1/15 of one percent.

Im in a very stable job, just finished paying off my almost all my loans, school,cc, and planning to pay my house off with in 5 yrs. And to top it off I have a great beautiful woman who loves and supports me. My life is great.

But I would still be in a huge whole if i just relied on my flying income. AGAIN, what is wrong with striving for more? Maybe your one of those guys that has the dont worry be happy attitudes, but i rather plan for my kids educations, be set for retirement, and be happy. And I tell u what 70k aint going to let that happen.

Im 28, and have set my sights high, I would like to be financially sound for when I start to have kids. My goal is to have my kids education paid for before they start college, so that they don't have to be burdened with 80k in student loans like i was. You guys make me sound like the devil, just because I think we deserve more.

Like a wise man once told me always plan for the worst and hope for the best. Im just hoping we can we all can raise the bar again so that we can make it a bit easier to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

oh yeah, WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
You sure did set your sights high my friend. Let's see: you say you have almost 3 years at NJA, which means you joined the ranks when starting pay was about 26k. Wow, you were an ambitious young man.......
What happened to you is probably what happened to many of us at NJA: we stumbled upon this company after being furloughed when almost no other carriers were hiring pilots with our qualifications. So only one word comes to mind when you gripe about your long upgrade and mediocre pay (and only compared to SWA, FEDEX, and UPS): HYPOCRITE.
Don't cry about how much you make and instead look at how much the union has achieved for us. I came to NJA out of desperation and never planned on finishing my career here. Now, it is a whole different situation, and I have no desire to leave. So be thankful for what you have, because it is a whole lot more than what you originally settled for!!!
As for paying off your house in 5 years at age 28, I can't see how you are struggling in the least. Last I checked, I got 28 years worth of payments on my home!
And on a final note, your upgrade will be occurring within the next 2 years if you truly have been here nearly 3 years. My friend was hired exactly 3 years ago and upgraded a few months ago, like you mention, things have slowed down, but that is mainly due to the PIC merry go round that was previously discussed. So hold on, you will get your hard earned fourth stripe soon my friend (no sarcasm intended - well maybe just a little).
Blueridger is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 

 
Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
instructing on the side? Moe Rudda Regional 21 02-16-2008 04:50 PM
How does Net Jets accommodate part time reservists? C model Driver Fractional 11 02-04-2008 05:07 PM
Small Jets, More Trips Worsen Airport Delays jelloy683 Regional 13 08-14-2007 02:54 PM
Small Jets, More Trips Worsen Airport Delays jelloy683 Major 4 08-13-2007 05:24 PM
Net Jets time table captainscopilot Fractional 31 03-11-2006 06:06 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:41 PM.


vBulletin® v3.9.3.5, Copyright ©2000-2019, MH Sub I, LLC dba vBulletin
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright 2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1