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Old 04-15-2008, 05:08 PM   #31  
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Originally Posted by johndomeaston View Post
Hey all. I searched the site and found out that NetJets does infact have Military Reservists/Guard pilots. As a military member looking to transition to the civilian world, what is the recommended route to take if I plan on joining a Reserve Squadron? Should I try to get all spun up at the squadron before I try to get a job? Is it frowned upon if a new hire has to take 3 months off to get spun up on an new military aircraft? I would never want to leave a new employer hanging and am just trying to have a plan of attack. Of course my plan and what happens are very rarely the same. Thanks for the insight.
NJA is EXTREMELY military friendly. If you have to go, they let you...no questions asked.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:33 PM   #32  
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I believe if you look at the contract, pay and QOL get better every year, kman. There is the option of giving the company more operational flexibility, i.e. working the 15 day or 18 day, and they pay you a premium for it. If you work the 7n7, a rigid schedule, then you make base pay which increases every year and as you accrue seniority you are able to choose better vacations and have more vacation days, as well as acrruing more PTO days unless you have already used them.

Of course that isn't your point is it. You still think you are worth more and should work less. NJ is not the only employer around. A handful of employers just off the top of my head that pay more: SWA, UPS, FedEX, Cathay. I am sure there are more. Stick around here and help negotiate better pay rates next contract, or if you can't wait that long, market your skills to a company willing to pay your desired compensation.

It's what a free market is all about.
Hey, Im all for helping to raise the bar , and will offer my time for the cause. But as far as the current contract, the 7n7 pay gets about what a 3k yearly raise besides yr 3? Most likely be a 5-6 yr upgrade for me a new hire could easily hit close to a decade. It would start to get pretty old at 70k after 8 years as a fo. We currently are being compared to SWA, Fedex, UPS. 2nd yr FO for all those carriers are close to 100k, thats what I believe we need to be at.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:24 PM   #33  
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Hey, Im all for helping to raise the bar , and will offer my time for the cause. But as far as the current contract, the 7n7 pay gets about what a 3k yearly raise besides yr 3? Most likely be a 5-6 yr upgrade for me a new hire could easily hit close to a decade. It would start to get pretty old at 70k after 8 years as a fo. We currently are being compared to SWA, Fedex, UPS. 2nd yr FO for all those carriers are close to 100k, thats what I believe we need to be at.
Wow. It doesn't take long to forget how the rest of the world lives, does it. Thats a shame.

I'm thankful everyday that I am privileged enough to live in the U.S. I'm also thankful everyday to be privileged enough to be flying jets in the U.S., and if I'm ever lucky enough to pile even more privilege on top of all that, and even fly for NetJets, I will be thankful every single day for that too. I could live the rest of my life on 70K..... and be truly, truly, thankful - content and satisfied. IMHO, happiness is found in giving thanks for the huge quantity that is in what you already have, and giving from that bounty to others less fortunate. Happiness/bitterness is a decision - I've made my choice. Since I'm already happy where I am in life, anything I achieve in the pursuit of continuous personal improvement is icing on the cake. Stepping down from the soap box now...
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:27 PM   #34  
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Wow you guys amaze me. Whats wrong with being well paid? Im sure we could all live on 70k if we had to. But why not strive for more? And who is bitter and unhappy my life is great, but wouldn't it be nicer with an extra 30k in your bank?

And Kdub, how long have your worked for NJ? How the rest of the world does it? Do you think about the starving kids in the world every time you sit down for a meal? Maybe every dime over 70k you make you should donate to a charity?

What did it take for you to get your job? Was it easy? Maybe we should take a pay cut, because we all don't need anything more than 70k.

And why do so many pilots undervalue the price we pay to get where we are?

Did any of us land our job by sure luck or was it determination, hard work, education, debt, time away from family, sweat and tears? We could have all choose a path that was easier, more stable, with the ability to come home every night, but we didn't.

We all gave up and constantly give up a lot to get and stay where we are, why can't we be on par with the other side of aviation?

Is 50k lbs of cargo more valuable than a fortune 500 ceo?

You may think 70k at as 8 yr fo is fine and dandy, but I choose to think its not. And if we all carried the attitude of don't rock the boat and we should just be happy with what we got we would never see another raise is our lives.

Why is it that a ups or swa fo is so much more valuable than a NJA fo? Why shouldn't the QOL and time off get better with seniority? I got over 25 yrs of flying at NJA left (till age 60) if i so choose. Why can't I want more for me and my pilot brothers and sisters? For the amount of work we do compared to UPS, FedEX, and SWA, we need to be at least on par with there pay. And as far as QOL why shouldn't a 20 yr guy have a better qol than a 10 yr guy? Would you really be wanting to bust ur hump on a 7 day tour or more if you didn't have to at the age of 40, 50, 60?

I may have more questions than answers, but maybe you should ask yourself do you know what your worth? I sure do and its definitely more than 70k a year.

And at the minumum we should be around 90k for a 3rd fo on the 7n7 and 5 yr captains pay should be at 130k on the 7n7.

Last edited by kman; 04-15-2008 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:52 PM   #35  
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Wow you guys amaze me. Whats wrong with being well paid? Im sure we could all live on 70k if we had to. But why not strive for more? And who is bitter and unhappy my life is great, but wouldn't it be nicer with an extra 30k in your bank?

And Kdub, how long have your worked for NJ? How the rest of the world does it? Do you think about the starving kids in the world every time you sit down for a meal? Maybe every dime over 70k you make you should donate to a charity?

What did it take for you to get your job? Was it easy? Maybe we should take a pay cut, because we all don't need anything more than 70k.

And why do so many pilots undervalue the price we pay to get where we are?

Did any of us land our job by sure luck or was it determination, hard work, education, debt, time away from family, sweat and tears? We could have all choose a path that was easier, more stable, with the ability to come home every night, but we didn't.

We all gave up and constantly give up a lot to get and stay where we are, why can't we be on par with the other side of aviation?

Is 50k lbs of cargo more valuable than a fortune 500 ceo?

You may think 70k at as 8 yr fo is fine and dandy, but I choose to think its not. And if we all carried the attitude of don't rock the boat and we should just be happy with what we got we would never see another raise is our lives.

Why is it that a ups or swa fo is so much more valuable than a NJA fo? Why shouldn't the QOL and time off get better with seniority? I got over 25 yrs of flying at NJA left (till age 60) if i so choose. Why can't I want more for me and my pilot brothers and sisters? For the amount of work we do compared to UPS, FedEX, and SWA, we need to be at least on par with there pay. And as far as QOL why shouldn't a 20 yr guy have a better qol than a 10 yr guy? Would you really be wanting to bust ur hump on a 7 day tour or more if you didn't have to at the age of 40, 50, 60?

I may have more questions than answers, but maybe you should ask yourself do you know what your worth? I sure do and its definitely more than 70k a year.

And at the minumum we should be around 90k for a 3rd fo on the 7n7 and 5 yr captains pay should be at 130k on the 7n7.
Maybe you should resign from NJ and join SWA, Fedex or UPS. This should make you happier in life.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:04 PM   #36  
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kman -
I agree. Why should you have to fly for less than others? I also know that it is impossible to just snap your fingers and just make money appear. I wish it was that easy.

iluvetops -
Why should he leave to fly for anyone else? Does this mean that when any pilot asks for a raise they should just go to wherever they pay more? How is it okay to negotiate an increase in pay, but when kman says that he is happy where he works, but would be even happier with more money, you treat that as a bad thing?


It is the American way of life to strive for more, strive for better and reach for the stars. That is how change is made and how people get things done.

If you're not happy at your job, then find something else. But if you are happy with your job, but want more....go for it! That is the reason that pilots don't make minimum wage. If no one wanted or asked for more, they would never get it. Business is not in the habit of just giving money away.
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:22 AM   #37  
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Originally Posted by Kdub View Post
Wow. It doesn't take long to forget how the rest of the world lives, does it. Thats a shame.

I'm thankful everyday that I am privileged enough to live in the U.S. I'm also thankful everyday to be privileged enough to be flying jets in the U.S., and if I'm ever lucky enough to pile even more privilege on top of all that, and even fly for NetJets, I will be thankful every single day for that too. I could live the rest of my life on 70K..... and be truly, truly, thankful - content and satisfied....
When did they let Jonny O. on this message board???


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And at the minumum we should be around 90k for a 3rd fo on the 7n7 and 5 yr captains pay should be at 130k on the 7n7.
No argument here.... you ought' to jump on the negotiating committee next time 'round!!
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:15 AM   #38  
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kman -
I agree. Why should you have to fly for less than others? I also know that it is impossible to just snap your fingers and just make money appear. I wish it was that easy.

iluvetops -
Why should he leave to fly for anyone else? Does this mean that when any pilot asks for a raise they should just go to wherever they pay more? How is it okay to negotiate an increase in pay, but when kman says that he is happy where he works, but would be even happier with more money, you treat that as a bad thing?


It is the American way of life to strive for more, strive for better and reach for the stars. That is how change is made and how people get things done.

If you're not happy at your job, then find something else. But if you are happy with your job, but want more....go for it! That is the reason that pilots don't make minimum wage. If no one wanted or asked for more, they would never get it. Business is not in the habit of just giving money away.
finally somebody that gets my point. Thank you.
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Old 04-16-2008, 02:37 PM   #39  
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finally somebody that gets my point. Thank you.
Or...

Maybe someone who didn't read your post fully. As a 8 year FO, the G's will be here along with the Cessna Columbus and you can make 104K+ a year on the 18 day if you need the money. You CHOSE to work here under a much different set of rules. Your union went and won you 95 different places in the country to live and a 67% raise when the company was under no obligation to give either. And they weren't obligated to even negotiate until 2010. You CHOSE to work at NJ. Now you feel you are unfairly treated, and you are like many of us including me, GREEDY! That's OK! I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with the mode of thinking that it is OWED to us. Itg is most certainly not. Farmers feed us all. We take wealthy clients to destinations for convenience of time. Which is more important? The farmer is, but he makes much less!

The point is you get compensated for what you negotiate. If you don't feel properly compensated at NJ, then YES, apply for SWA, FedEx, UPS!!! Right now we need to focus on improving our product, i.e. focusing on each individual owner so they ALWAYS return to NJ and not our competitors. Word then spreads and we gain more owners and more planes, more flying, more market, more profits, and when 2013 comes around, BETTER pay rates. For now, concentrate on what is good about NJ and improving our product instead of grousing about how poor and mistreated we are.

Cheers!
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Old 04-16-2008, 03:06 PM   #40  
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Maybe u misread my post. I stated 90k on the 7n7. Why can't you guys read? Even with the columbus, is that going to be a class 4 a/c? If its not the pay would still be the same as an ultra? So a columbus fo on yr eight pay is what on the 7n7? 70k ish.

And you act like we give nothing in return for our TA, maybe u should do some research and think twice about the company just giving us more bases and raises out of the goodness of there hearts.

How many g's position do u think there will be? there has been about what 4 positions this year? And what about 900 sic's on propert? And where did u get the a 67% raise? I went from 44k to about 58kwhen the ta passed. My math is pretty bad but thats not 67%. And when did I say we were unfairly treated or something is owed to me? All Im going to hear from now on is, "well if u don't like it quit or go somewhere else." No, If a better opportunity shows up I take it, but until then I going to try to add Pay and QOL for all NJA pilots.

I just want to strive for more, and all i get is static and don't rock the boat responses from u guys. Maybe we should just wait and let the company give another raise out of the goodness of there heart. Cheeeeeerrrsss right back ya.

Last edited by kman; 04-16-2008 at 03:18 PM.
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