Xojet
09-05-2019, 07:29 AM
#1811
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: B757/767 Both Seats
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by chase
For those who are wondering what life is like at XO (from a newbie perspective, retired SWA old fart) here is what I've observed since the initial X training in MCO back in June.
Overall assessment since my start...Outstanding!
Future outlook: Lots of changes in the next 6-18 months but optimistic looking forward.
For some it is a repeat of known info, my apologies...not written for you folks but for those trying to break through the clutter of what life at XO is like.
___________
Completed Citation X checkout in MCO at Flight Safety on June 3-22. Great experience.
XO has swapped between CAE training for the X and FS but I think they have found a good match with FS...quality program.
No AQP program for the line guys after initial (they are working toward that in the future though and moving from repeating the same stuff at each recurrent/annual) but the initial is all about training you for the checkride, over and over after getting all of the mandatory one time training items out of the way.
Very gentleman's course..had to study yes but it isn't a doctoral dissertation on the oral. I did mine with my sim partner who was great
Started IOE on Tuesday, 2 July on my first "A" rotation (8/6)
Each quarter there is a new bid if you wish to try getting a different start day (Tues or Wed start days for normal 8/6 schedules)
I start on Tuesday and finish on Tuesday= a "rotation"....then 6 days off. They have a "B" rotation that is awarded and they come on to replace the A folks. There is also a 15/13 rotation and then Flex bidders...mostly senior. Won't bore you with that.
Unlike 121 IOE, when you are flying as the PM, those hours count toward your 100 hrs rule as I recall...i.e. restrictions in place as to xwinds, visibility minimums, etc.
At XO and I assume other 135 ops, the 100 hrs of experience that lifts all restrictions listed in the ops specs is only accumulated when one is actually "flying" or PF.
I flew 4 rotations (short yellow school bus for those who don't know my flying/mental capacity) and garnered 43 legs/100.5 hrs total of which 25 legs as PF of 42.1 and the remaining as PM. I didn't understand the difference until just prior to the last rotation and asked the Standards Capt to let me fly nearly all of the flights...
Speaking of Standard Captains...great folks, all had at least 8 yrs of experience...great guys and very patient.
Each rotation I started by commuting out to the airplane.
On 3 of the rotations I only commuted out to the city...didn't fly the airplane until the "2nd day" of the rotation. The fourth I had moved my "Commuter base" to Dallas and they allowed me to start my trip from there...sweet, got to see my grandkids for an extra day!
On all "go home" Tuesdays, I only commuted home..didn't fly the X at all. I couldn't depart for home until my replacement's scheduled land time or arrival time to the city where I was departing from. No leaving or asking to be released early the night before if you aren't scheduled to fly the next day like SWA but I've gotten home each rotation from the 2 PM to 8 PM timeframe.
First 4 rotations never flew in the dark (late or early)...very gentlemen daylight hours...again rich people don't like to fly very early or late generally speaking.
That being said, anyone who flies a redeye (I haven't) and they are few, gets the next day off completely..land Thurs AM, return to fly on Saturday...nice.
Two times have had to drive from one airport to another, 30 mins to 1.5 hrs...rental car provided, once at the beginning of a day (didn't fly) and twice at the end of the day.
Last rotation (first off IOE), had 3 days landing in the dark, 11 hr day with 2-3 legs each day but not so bad IMHO.
Sample of airports I've flown into that SWA pilots are familiar with (bold are common stops where we can restock the airplane):
SJC
PHX
FLL
PBI
SEA
DAL
HOU
ALB
SLC
DTW
Non-SWA fields
Uncontrolled fields visited
Rifle, CO
Peliston, MI
Controlled
KFOK - West Hampton, NY
KMSO - Missoula
KBZN - Bozeman
CYVR - Vancouver
KRDM - Redmond, OR
KHPN - White Plains, NY
KTEB - Teterboro
KPDK - DeKalb Peachtree
KVNY - Van Nuys
KOPF - Opo Laka FL
KACY - Atlantic City, NJ
KENW - Kenosha, WI
KJAC - Jackson Hole
KSDL - Scottsdale (sat for 2 days, no assignment)
KLNK - Lincoln - every rotation has seen a trip through mx base to drop off an airplane due for mx and then pick one up the next day for a trip somewhere else.
KSTS - Sonoma, CA (great overnight, wonderful to have a rental car to visit local sites)
KMRY - Monterey, CA (got to see the last day of the world famous classic car show...pretty amazing to see)
KMKC - Kansas City downtown airport
KROG - Rogers Municpal , AR (Walmart flght ops base)
KCMA - Camarillo, CA
and a few others I've missed.
Hotels are majority full service Marriott/Hilton, a few Garden Inns but only when others are full.
Due to last minute changes often, this creates a challenge. Every day the hotel folks write and ASK US which hotel choices to choose from...Usually below $200 is the target but some times it can't be done for that little so you get put into the Grand Teton Lodge in KJAC.
Once the hotel is confirmed, the rental car request is made immediately afterwards via email and that is confirmed and many times waiting next to the airplane when you land. Most CA split the rental car so each person is getting points during the rotation...car is put on company credit card to allow both persons to drive and insurance is automatically included by using the company card.
$80 per diem and my average 1 week rotation for food, lodging, rental car, miscellaneous averages about $1800-$2000 which I track on a simple app the company has. Take pictures of receipts, log the details and then submit a the end of the trip and a check is cut and deposited in my account within a few days after approval, i.e. no buffoonery on my part which doesn't always occur.
Most days are 2 legs, a few single leg days either transcon or a single reposition flight to prepare for next day. Usually one short repositioning (less than 1 hr) and a longer flight...probably 1 or 2 days will have 3 legs but like my last day on Monday, repo from TEB to PHL, then PHL-PHX-SJC
No FBO sitting...if you aren't flying, you are at the hotel or enroute to your next airport via car or transport...can't say that is the case for other 135 folks but maybe for some.
Passengers have been fine...mostly congenial, a few with cell phone strapped to ear but no horror stories. CAs have been great in prepping the pax on contingencies, i.e. can't get in due to tailwinds on a short runway at Aspen or rain on a short runway that makes landing at the preferred place not possible but a good alternative nearby is suggested.
Lots of pilot brain cells being used that haven't been used in a while and looking forward by the Captains to the next flight, and to the next and tomorrow's flight has impressed me immensely...a 121 pilot would never worry about the level of detail the world 135 has to deal with.....wish I had known this all when speaking to FOs about their experiences...my hats off to you...they deserve huge props for making it look easy.
Has anything changed since I arrived?
Yes...new COO. The "Herb" equivalent, Brad Stewart left in Oct '18 after XO was bought by Vista Gobal Holdings, Austin Schell took over and served until 1 July when he announced he was leaving.
New COO is Kevin Thomas, joined XO in Oct '18, will oversee the moving of the company from McClellan Field, CA to the FLL area. Corporate HHQ also moving from Brisbane, CA to FLL HHQ. JetSmarter, which was purchased by Vista also in Oct will be housed in the same location in FLL so everyone will be under one roof.
Kevin will be hands on and oversee that and will have his hands full. Like the transition from Herb to Jim Parker to Gary K, no one can duplicate Herb and Brad's reputation was similar. New leadership is always a challenge but the real challenge will be keeping the culture with the advent of the move from CA to FL and how many of the ground folks will wish to make a paid move across the country. For the pilots it is a nominal change but for the people most impacted in CA, it will be a big decision.
Lots of unknowns but I'm still comfortable with my choice and believe it will be a good long range to make the move. The company had sound reasons for doing it and I hope many will make the move but if they don't, the talent in FL and the aviation culture there will be a good place to recruit from to get good talent to replace great folks who have helped build XO into what it is now.
That's enough for now..got a honey do list that has grown being gone for 8 days...again if anyone is interested in learning more, send me a PM
XO is still hiring...newest X captain was hired on June 2018, newest Challenger 300 Capt hired on Jan 2018.
They are hiring on the Vista side also for Challenger 350 and Global pilots...different pay and different work rules but the goal is eventually to get everyone under 1 roof for rules and comparable pay scales, assumption on my part.
Trying to fill the Vista side now, fewer openings on the XO side but that can change overnight, like our schedule.
With the hurricane boring down on FL, company was great about getting pilots off the line to get to their families...vols to backfill to help out...didn't ask on the X side but did so only on the 300 side.
I'm sure other 135 experiences are similar...do your homework and decide what your top 5 priorities are in that next job and honestly evaluate each of the employers based upon your desires. Good luck.
Cheers,
Overall assessment since my start...Outstanding!
Future outlook: Lots of changes in the next 6-18 months but optimistic looking forward.
For some it is a repeat of known info, my apologies...not written for you folks but for those trying to break through the clutter of what life at XO is like.
___________
Completed Citation X checkout in MCO at Flight Safety on June 3-22. Great experience.
XO has swapped between CAE training for the X and FS but I think they have found a good match with FS...quality program.
No AQP program for the line guys after initial (they are working toward that in the future though and moving from repeating the same stuff at each recurrent/annual) but the initial is all about training you for the checkride, over and over after getting all of the mandatory one time training items out of the way.
Very gentleman's course..had to study yes but it isn't a doctoral dissertation on the oral. I did mine with my sim partner who was great
Started IOE on Tuesday, 2 July on my first "A" rotation (8/6)
Each quarter there is a new bid if you wish to try getting a different start day (Tues or Wed start days for normal 8/6 schedules)
I start on Tuesday and finish on Tuesday= a "rotation"....then 6 days off. They have a "B" rotation that is awarded and they come on to replace the A folks. There is also a 15/13 rotation and then Flex bidders...mostly senior. Won't bore you with that.
Unlike 121 IOE, when you are flying as the PM, those hours count toward your 100 hrs rule as I recall...i.e. restrictions in place as to xwinds, visibility minimums, etc.
At XO and I assume other 135 ops, the 100 hrs of experience that lifts all restrictions listed in the ops specs is only accumulated when one is actually "flying" or PF.
I flew 4 rotations (short yellow school bus for those who don't know my flying/mental capacity) and garnered 43 legs/100.5 hrs total of which 25 legs as PF of 42.1 and the remaining as PM. I didn't understand the difference until just prior to the last rotation and asked the Standards Capt to let me fly nearly all of the flights...
Speaking of Standard Captains...great folks, all had at least 8 yrs of experience...great guys and very patient.
Each rotation I started by commuting out to the airplane.
On 3 of the rotations I only commuted out to the city...didn't fly the airplane until the "2nd day" of the rotation. The fourth I had moved my "Commuter base" to Dallas and they allowed me to start my trip from there...sweet, got to see my grandkids for an extra day!
On all "go home" Tuesdays, I only commuted home..didn't fly the X at all. I couldn't depart for home until my replacement's scheduled land time or arrival time to the city where I was departing from. No leaving or asking to be released early the night before if you aren't scheduled to fly the next day like SWA but I've gotten home each rotation from the 2 PM to 8 PM timeframe.
First 4 rotations never flew in the dark (late or early)...very gentlemen daylight hours...again rich people don't like to fly very early or late generally speaking.
That being said, anyone who flies a redeye (I haven't) and they are few, gets the next day off completely..land Thurs AM, return to fly on Saturday...nice.
Two times have had to drive from one airport to another, 30 mins to 1.5 hrs...rental car provided, once at the beginning of a day (didn't fly) and twice at the end of the day.
Last rotation (first off IOE), had 3 days landing in the dark, 11 hr day with 2-3 legs each day but not so bad IMHO.
Sample of airports I've flown into that SWA pilots are familiar with (bold are common stops where we can restock the airplane):
SJC
PHX
FLL
PBI
SEA
DAL
HOU
ALB
SLC
DTW
Non-SWA fields
Uncontrolled fields visited
Rifle, CO
Peliston, MI
Controlled
KFOK - West Hampton, NY
KMSO - Missoula
KBZN - Bozeman
CYVR - Vancouver
KRDM - Redmond, OR
KHPN - White Plains, NY
KTEB - Teterboro
KPDK - DeKalb Peachtree
KVNY - Van Nuys
KOPF - Opo Laka FL
KACY - Atlantic City, NJ
KENW - Kenosha, WI
KJAC - Jackson Hole
KSDL - Scottsdale (sat for 2 days, no assignment)
KLNK - Lincoln - every rotation has seen a trip through mx base to drop off an airplane due for mx and then pick one up the next day for a trip somewhere else.
KSTS - Sonoma, CA (great overnight, wonderful to have a rental car to visit local sites)
KMRY - Monterey, CA (got to see the last day of the world famous classic car show...pretty amazing to see)
KMKC - Kansas City downtown airport
KROG - Rogers Municpal , AR (Walmart flght ops base)
KCMA - Camarillo, CA
and a few others I've missed.
Hotels are majority full service Marriott/Hilton, a few Garden Inns but only when others are full.
Due to last minute changes often, this creates a challenge. Every day the hotel folks write and ASK US which hotel choices to choose from...Usually below $200 is the target but some times it can't be done for that little so you get put into the Grand Teton Lodge in KJAC.
Once the hotel is confirmed, the rental car request is made immediately afterwards via email and that is confirmed and many times waiting next to the airplane when you land. Most CA split the rental car so each person is getting points during the rotation...car is put on company credit card to allow both persons to drive and insurance is automatically included by using the company card.
$80 per diem and my average 1 week rotation for food, lodging, rental car, miscellaneous averages about $1800-$2000 which I track on a simple app the company has. Take pictures of receipts, log the details and then submit a the end of the trip and a check is cut and deposited in my account within a few days after approval, i.e. no buffoonery on my part which doesn't always occur.
Most days are 2 legs, a few single leg days either transcon or a single reposition flight to prepare for next day. Usually one short repositioning (less than 1 hr) and a longer flight...probably 1 or 2 days will have 3 legs but like my last day on Monday, repo from TEB to PHL, then PHL-PHX-SJC
No FBO sitting...if you aren't flying, you are at the hotel or enroute to your next airport via car or transport...can't say that is the case for other 135 folks but maybe for some.
Passengers have been fine...mostly congenial, a few with cell phone strapped to ear but no horror stories. CAs have been great in prepping the pax on contingencies, i.e. can't get in due to tailwinds on a short runway at Aspen or rain on a short runway that makes landing at the preferred place not possible but a good alternative nearby is suggested.
Lots of pilot brain cells being used that haven't been used in a while and looking forward by the Captains to the next flight, and to the next and tomorrow's flight has impressed me immensely...a 121 pilot would never worry about the level of detail the world 135 has to deal with.....wish I had known this all when speaking to FOs about their experiences...my hats off to you...they deserve huge props for making it look easy.
Has anything changed since I arrived?
Yes...new COO. The "Herb" equivalent, Brad Stewart left in Oct '18 after XO was bought by Vista Gobal Holdings, Austin Schell took over and served until 1 July when he announced he was leaving.
New COO is Kevin Thomas, joined XO in Oct '18, will oversee the moving of the company from McClellan Field, CA to the FLL area. Corporate HHQ also moving from Brisbane, CA to FLL HHQ. JetSmarter, which was purchased by Vista also in Oct will be housed in the same location in FLL so everyone will be under one roof.
Kevin will be hands on and oversee that and will have his hands full. Like the transition from Herb to Jim Parker to Gary K, no one can duplicate Herb and Brad's reputation was similar. New leadership is always a challenge but the real challenge will be keeping the culture with the advent of the move from CA to FL and how many of the ground folks will wish to make a paid move across the country. For the pilots it is a nominal change but for the people most impacted in CA, it will be a big decision.
Lots of unknowns but I'm still comfortable with my choice and believe it will be a good long range to make the move. The company had sound reasons for doing it and I hope many will make the move but if they don't, the talent in FL and the aviation culture there will be a good place to recruit from to get good talent to replace great folks who have helped build XO into what it is now.
That's enough for now..got a honey do list that has grown being gone for 8 days...again if anyone is interested in learning more, send me a PM
XO is still hiring...newest X captain was hired on June 2018, newest Challenger 300 Capt hired on Jan 2018.
They are hiring on the Vista side also for Challenger 350 and Global pilots...different pay and different work rules but the goal is eventually to get everyone under 1 roof for rules and comparable pay scales, assumption on my part.
Trying to fill the Vista side now, fewer openings on the XO side but that can change overnight, like our schedule.
With the hurricane boring down on FL, company was great about getting pilots off the line to get to their families...vols to backfill to help out...didn't ask on the X side but did so only on the 300 side.
I'm sure other 135 experiences are similar...do your homework and decide what your top 5 priorities are in that next job and honestly evaluate each of the employers based upon your desires. Good luck.
Cheers,
Thank you for taking the time to put this useful information out there.
09-05-2019, 08:05 AM
#1812
XOJET Citation X
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Saafer,
My pleasure...the 135 world, like the 121 world, was a murky place with lots of terminology and inferences I was unfamiliar with. Like anything it is about deciphering the codes and making it into plane English for simpletons like me to understand.
If it accomplishes that then it has served its purpose.
It also comes with the caveat that the reader still needs to search for more than a single source of information on something as important as a job move, mine is but one perspective but I hope it helps.
My pleasure...the 135 world, like the 121 world, was a murky place with lots of terminology and inferences I was unfamiliar with. Like anything it is about deciphering the codes and making it into plane English for simpletons like me to understand.
If it accomplishes that then it has served its purpose.
It also comes with the caveat that the reader still needs to search for more than a single source of information on something as important as a job move, mine is but one perspective but I hope it helps.
09-05-2019, 09:45 AM
#1813
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by chase
Saafer,
My pleasure...the 135 world, like the 121 world, was a murky place with lots of terminology and inferences I was unfamiliar with. Like anything it is about deciphering the codes and making it into plane English for simpletons like me to understand.
If it accomplishes that then it has served its purpose.
It also comes with the caveat that the reader still needs to search for more than a single source of information on something as important as a job move, mine is but one perspective but I hope it helps.
My pleasure...the 135 world, like the 121 world, was a murky place with lots of terminology and inferences I was unfamiliar with. Like anything it is about deciphering the codes and making it into plane English for simpletons like me to understand.
If it accomplishes that then it has served its purpose.
It also comes with the caveat that the reader still needs to search for more than a single source of information on something as important as a job move, mine is but one perspective but I hope it helps.
09-05-2019, 01:24 PM
#1814
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: EMB500 PIC
Posts: 84
Great write up Chase! I知 happy to say I got the phone call today with the job offer. I知 really looking forward to the opportunity. I have to work through October due to some personal stuff going on, but they are to slate me a start date for November. I interviewed on the 20th. 5500+ total time with about 8 years 135.
09-05-2019, 07:10 PM
#1817
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: B757/767 Both Seats
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by chase
Saafer,
My pleasure...the 135 world, like the 121 world, was a murky place with lots of terminology and inferences I was unfamiliar with. Like anything it is about deciphering the codes and making it into plane English for simpletons like me to understand.
If it accomplishes that then it has served its purpose.
It also comes with the caveat that the reader still needs to search for more than a single source of information on something as important as a job move, mine is but one perspective but I hope it helps.
My pleasure...the 135 world, like the 121 world, was a murky place with lots of terminology and inferences I was unfamiliar with. Like anything it is about deciphering the codes and making it into plane English for simpletons like me to understand.
If it accomplishes that then it has served its purpose.
It also comes with the caveat that the reader still needs to search for more than a single source of information on something as important as a job move, mine is but one perspective but I hope it helps.
09-06-2019, 11:27 AM
#1818
XOJET Citation X
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by Avi8tor441
Great write up Chase! I知 happy to say I got the phone call today with the job offer. I知 really looking forward to the opportunity. I have to work through October due to some personal stuff going on, but they are to slate me a start date for November. I interviewed on the 20th. 5500+ total time with about 8 years 135.
Great attitudes beget more great attitudes so hopefully yours will add to the ones I've come across so far.
Have a great weekend and will look for you on the line sometime in early 2020.
09-07-2019, 08:52 AM
#1819
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: EMB500 PIC
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by chase
Congrats on getting the call and thanks for the kind comments. No place is Nirvana but I think you will find it a welcoming place and one where you can thrive and enjoy coming to work.
Great attitudes beget more great attitudes so hopefully yours will add to the ones I've come across so far.
Have a great weekend and will look for you on the line sometime in early 2020.
Great attitudes beget more great attitudes so hopefully yours will add to the ones I've come across so far.
Have a great weekend and will look for you on the line sometime in early 2020.
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