Frontier Negotiations Discussion
04-20-2018, 04:02 PM
#1453
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by Mugatu
I don’t see PBS anywhere. Other than that, I’m glad our NC rejected it. It’s a laughing joke. Did you see Southwest stock price when they announced their big contract? Not a blip. The company’s plan has always been to resolve this on the 11th hour of the 30 day anyway. Isn’t that correct, TherapySession?
04-20-2018, 04:32 PM
#1455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 120
To all the lurkers who think they are going to hire on here just before we ratify a new contract...
You are wrong. We are going to be at the bottom of the barrel for the foreseeable future, and that’s shaping up to be a long, long time.
Here’s why I think so; suppose we proffer next week. The NMB will then take the time to assess our proffer. Then, if they agree we are truly at an impasse, they will respond with the offer to arbitrate. We will turn down arbitration. Then the NMB will ask the DOT to analyze the impact of a work stoppage from our pilots. If the DOT determines it will have a negligible impact, the NMB will start the 30 day cooling off period. With all this back and forth between government agencies and ALPA, the earliest I can see this clock starting is July. So August for day 29.
But here is where it all goes awry. With every update from the negotiating committee, the pilot group is increasingly disgruntled with the items that have already been agreed to. Subpar LTD, per diem, 5 year duration, etc...
I think when it finally gets to the point of a TA, it’s too late. Our patience has run out, the TA will not reflect LOA 67, the rates will be too low, you name it. Any concession is unacceptable at this point.
It could be years before we see an acceptable TA, if ever.
Just something to think about before you roll the dice on this place.
Edit: spelling
You are wrong. We are going to be at the bottom of the barrel for the foreseeable future, and that’s shaping up to be a long, long time.
Here’s why I think so; suppose we proffer next week. The NMB will then take the time to assess our proffer. Then, if they agree we are truly at an impasse, they will respond with the offer to arbitrate. We will turn down arbitration. Then the NMB will ask the DOT to analyze the impact of a work stoppage from our pilots. If the DOT determines it will have a negligible impact, the NMB will start the 30 day cooling off period. With all this back and forth between government agencies and ALPA, the earliest I can see this clock starting is July. So August for day 29.
But here is where it all goes awry. With every update from the negotiating committee, the pilot group is increasingly disgruntled with the items that have already been agreed to. Subpar LTD, per diem, 5 year duration, etc...
I think when it finally gets to the point of a TA, it’s too late. Our patience has run out, the TA will not reflect LOA 67, the rates will be too low, you name it. Any concession is unacceptable at this point.
It could be years before we see an acceptable TA, if ever.
Just something to think about before you roll the dice on this place.
Edit: spelling
Last edited by PowerMan; 04-20-2018 at 04:46 PM.
04-20-2018, 04:54 PM
#1456
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
I’m with PowerMan on the general theme of his post.
As far as I’m concerned, our initial ask from 2+ YEARS ago was barely acceptable 2 years ago. Sticking with it today—after several carriers have significantly upped the industry average—is completely unacceptable.
The worst part is that my understanding is that we’ve negotiated downward from the initial ask. No bueno.
The basic hourly rates we asked for 2+ years ago are now 20 to $25 under industry average. We’re not even asking for profit sharing. How much is profit sharing worth to Delta, WN, AA, etc. $20 to $40 per hour? Based on 1000 hours per year? How much will it cost me to buy industry standard OWN OCCUPATION disability insurance? My understanding is that we didn’t even ask for this.
Based on everything I’ve been able to glean from talking to P2P folks as well as communicating with members of the negotiating committee directly, I am almost certainly a no voter on the first TA.
As far as I’m concerned, our initial ask from 2+ YEARS ago was barely acceptable 2 years ago. Sticking with it today—after several carriers have significantly upped the industry average—is completely unacceptable.
The worst part is that my understanding is that we’ve negotiated downward from the initial ask. No bueno.
The basic hourly rates we asked for 2+ years ago are now 20 to $25 under industry average. We’re not even asking for profit sharing. How much is profit sharing worth to Delta, WN, AA, etc. $20 to $40 per hour? Based on 1000 hours per year? How much will it cost me to buy industry standard OWN OCCUPATION disability insurance? My understanding is that we didn’t even ask for this.
Based on everything I’ve been able to glean from talking to P2P folks as well as communicating with members of the negotiating committee directly, I am almost certainly a no voter on the first TA.
04-20-2018, 08:03 PM
#1457
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: CRJ-200 CA
Posts: 434
I don’t get why our ask hasn’t gone up... the company’s keeps going down yet we’re making “progress”... how is $2 an hour acceptable to our NC?! How is FIVE YEARS ok?!?! LTD?? I’m not sure if they agreed on that or not but that was a horsesh!t proposal... I know the NC works very hard and they put in a ton of time but I’m losing faith in them big time
04-21-2018, 05:10 AM
#1459
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by ReserveCA
Keep the status quo. ...
Fly safe (don't be in a hurry CYA)
Follow the FOM
DON'T fly tired!
DON'T fly sick!
If it's broke...write it up
Use the GATE phone
Etc etc
Fly safe (don't be in a hurry CYA)
Follow the FOM
DON'T fly tired!
DON'T fly sick!
If it's broke...write it up
Use the GATE phone
Etc etc
Do exactly what we have been doing all along! We are on third base. Now is not the time to do anything stupid! Quote above is spot on!
04-21-2018, 05:22 AM
#1460
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Mugatu
I don’t see PBS anywhere. Other than that, I’m glad our NC rejected it. It’s a laughing joke. Did you see Southwest stock price when they announced their big contract? Not a blip. The company’s plan has always been to resolve this on the 11th hour of the 30 day anyway. Isn’t that correct, TherapySession?
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