ReserveCA

It only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the pie ....

NWSteeringArmer

It’s not about them saying no to this specific proposal... it’s about them agreeing to subpar LTD... subpar per diem... agreeing to any LOA in negotiations... agreeing to a FIVE YEAR DURATION!!!... I haven’t received any info on them actually upping their ask at all... if we start at 100 and the company starts at zero we try to meet somewhere near 50... the way this is going it looks like it’s gonna end up around 30-35 if that makes sense...

I don’t give a sh!t about a premium folder... they incentivize 6 hour turns to 30 hours already... that’s 500%... multiply that by JA pay and the 82 hr override and some trips are incentivized to over 1000%!!!... what other airline does that???? I want to keep our vacation but if you get paid an industry standard rate, then you can actually take your vacation and not have to work on it... let’s say we keep our vacation... the company can just redo the pairings as the network grows and there’s more frequency to cities... then instead of your vacation dropping 2 or 3 trips completely, you’re stuck with turns on 2 pairings because it comes through base... they already got rid of 5 day trips because people were annihilating an entire month with 7 days of vac....

We need to ask for things that can’t just be dropped in bankruptcy... pay rates are important but they can go away quickly... we need to ask for excellent scope... does anyone trust any of these people?? We need to ask for industry standard/leading LTD... you walk into a tree branch and your career is over... is that worth vacation drops?? There’s absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t have at least 15% DC in DOS... just from what I’ve seen that’s been agreed to, I don’t need to read past the first page of any TA... they can count my vote right now...

NWSteeringArmer

And yes, I understand that just because they’ve been agreed to in principle, doesn’t mean that it’s written in stone, but if this what they’re agreeing, then we should see some industry leading/standard stuff coming from the company... we shouldn’t have regional per diem because we got standard trip rig...

NWSteeringArmer

And please don’t be suckered into voting for a subpar TA because you think there might be an economic downturn or there’s a shiny pay raise in front of you... them asking for PBS might’ve been a stall tactic but it might also be an indicator that they’re not going anywhere and they want it to save money in the long run... they print money... Frontier is actually pretty well set up to face an economic downturn in my opinion... we might actually make more money in an economic downturn... whatever you vote in will probably be your work rules for the next 8-9 years

PowerMan

+1

Look, I’m disheartened to say this because I truly appreciate the job the negotiations committee has done. I’m also fully aware of the delay we will incure following a rejection of a TA. However, after speaking with reps to clarify our position, I will also be a NO on a TA that doesn’t meet at least industry standard as an overall contract. There is absolutely no reason we should accept subpar sections. On the contrary, given the sacrifice of this pilot group during bankruptcy, the extended timeline on that bankruptcy contract, the outcome of the LOA 67 arbitration, and the overall disregard and disdain the company has shown for our current CBA, we should expect higher than average. It’s just absurd that we are striving to ratify barely acceptable (or unacceptable) sections for a 5 year (that will become a nine year) contract!

Just take another look at that last proposal. Note all the “Accept ALPA xxx-xxx Proposal”. Not one is above industry average. The per-diem is subpar as is the term of 5 years. So is the LTD! Why? What gains offset these? Line bidding would be a gain as opposed to PBS but they are attempting to gut that as well. Even the wording of “LOA 67/signing bonus” leads me to believe that there won’t be retro. They obviously want to lump some petty $ amount together for a LOA 67/signing bonus that will allow them to avoid accountability for the delay. A $15000 (or whatever) bonus is worth $15000 today and $15000 two years from now! A signing bonus encourages the company to delay at all costs. Retro is the only motivator for swift resolution.

It’s just all shaping up to be a reflection of their opinion of us as discount pilot group. I don’t share that opinion. Without some drastic shift, they can also count my vote now.

Settle in, we will have to strike just to see a subpar TA. I think that after that we will have to scrap the process and start from square one.

Edit: spelling

embraerjetpilot

So, just to stir the pot, did the Frontier folks willingly and happily agree to the last round of concessions?

If I recall correctly, they were pretty darn happy to take them...

They made their bed.

PowerMan

A quick search of your post history shows that you’ve been a TROLL since at least 5/13. Also that you’ve never, not once, contributed anything of value or substance to a thread. You’re just that loser tag-along waiting for a fight to break out. Not so you can jump in, but so you can find an opportunity for a cheap shot. No one has ever asked for your opinion, much less valued it.
Blocked. And GFY.

dracir1

AGREED, except for one thing. Our NC severely underbid our initial position.

I know people were wary of asking for something ridiculous to begin with but that’s essentially what was needed. 20% DC. 100% company paid LTD. $300/hr 12yr CA rates. Etc. Starting there would mean meeting at an acceptable middle.

From what I read, there isn’t ONE single section that I would vote yes on. They’re ALL lagging behind everyone else.

Is that how I should think of myself? My worth? My flying abilities? Is that how you think of yourself?

I guarantee mgt and ownership profit and compensation % are more than industry average...

ULLI

Serious question regarding retro... Which Airlines actually got 100% retro vs signing bonuses?

Aero1900

Let's not start talking NO votes until you attend a road show. This is ridiculous. We don't have a TA yet and we are already deciding we are voting no?

Lets wait and see the outcome of the negotiations first. There is so much we don't know yet.