Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-08-2018, 07:14 PM
#3011
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Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 508
Originally Posted by Silver02ex
You can still have that with PBS, if vacation or training events is only implemented after PBS line award. So if you have vacation or training the first week of the month, you can tell PBS to load your schedule at the beginning of the month, causing those drops and pay protected. This only works if that's how the language is written. It's still possible to still have "vacation touch" or whatever you want to call it. I believe ExpressJet had this around 2006-2007.
Thanks for the clarification.
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11-08-2018, 07:41 PM
#3012
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,341
Originally Posted by Burton78
There's a reason PBS was conceded while the legacies were in bankruptcy; It's a pilot QOL concession and benefits the company, not the pilots.
Despite, I realize that PBS, just like most other work rules, may not be all that bad if written in a manner that benefits the pilots but we have yet to see this company do anything of that sort. Is anyone expecting to read the TA and honestly think to themselves, “Hey, Indigo threw us a bone here...not bad.”
Also, as mentioned previously, other companies have profit sharing. Lower health care costs. Higher per diem. Override pay (red eye, international, etc.). HIGHER wages. Better scope. Me too clauses (the good me too clause). And so much more it’s difficult to be all inclusive with how far behind we are lagging. I can’t believe we would consider PBS in ANY form without substantial increases to ABOVE what most other airlines get. I’ve mentioned before that this airline could offer us a contract with $300/hr 12 yr CA pay and still make money.
Airline contracts are a giant game of leap frog - you don’t accept leaping to the back or even the middle of the pack...
11-08-2018, 08:03 PM
#3013
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by ReserveCA
Ok we’ll forget profit sharing, what about perdiem? Health care? LTD own occupation? Updated ask? Retirement 15%? Min day? Overrides? 14 day off reserve? Etc. etc. etc.
I’ll wait for the actual language, but with PBS it needs to be.......worth 12 yrs of scr€wing
I’ll wait for the actual language, but with PBS it needs to be.......worth 12 yrs of scr€wing
You stated in a previous post that you have never voted yes for anything in 30 years, so again we get it your a no vote, why don’t you show some real stones and continue to work under your current rates, and give up your share of the 75 million dollar bonus check when this deal is overwhelmingly ratified by people that aren’t out of their fu@king minds? No you’ll gladly take the $100 grand and new rates and spout off about how you voted no.
If we are looking at 50-60% increases, increases in retirement,keeping our work rules and have a PBS system that doesn’t jack our vacation or bidding, you can vote no all you want, I’ll prouldly be a yes vote.
And...btw 26 new hires in the Nov class, single digit cancellations and pilots climbing over each other picking up VJAs, good luck with all that leverage you like to talk about.
11-08-2018, 08:16 PM
#3014
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by monkeybrains
Per firm $2.00/hr, agreed to a year ago, health care agreed to largely a year ago, own occ - never asked for it, updated ask - no idea, but the word is top ca rate of $245 so not likely, 15% dc - no idea, sure would be nice, min day, still open, overrides - taken off the table a year ago, 14 days off for reserve - never asked for it...etc, etc, etc.
You stated in a previous post that you have never voted yes for anything in 30 years, so again we get it your a no vote, why don’t you show some real stones and continue to work under your current rates, and give up your share of the 75 million dollar bonus check when this deal is overwhelmingly ratified by people that aren’t out of their fu@king minds? No you’ll gladly take the $100 grand and new rates and spout off about how you voted no.
If we are looking at 50-60% increases, increases in retirement,keeping our work rules and have a PBS system that doesn’t jack our vacation or bidding, you can vote no all you want, I’ll prouldly be a yes vote.
And...btw 26 new hires in the Nov class, single digit cancellations and pilots climbing over each other picking up VJAs, good luck with all that leverage you like to talk about.
You stated in a previous post that you have never voted yes for anything in 30 years, so again we get it your a no vote, why don’t you show some real stones and continue to work under your current rates, and give up your share of the 75 million dollar bonus check when this deal is overwhelmingly ratified by people that aren’t out of their fu@king minds? No you’ll gladly take the $100 grand and new rates and spout off about how you voted no.
If we are looking at 50-60% increases, increases in retirement,keeping our work rules and have a PBS system that doesn’t jack our vacation or bidding, you can vote no all you want, I’ll prouldly be a yes vote.
And...btw 26 new hires in the Nov class, single digit cancellations and pilots climbing over each other picking up VJAs, good luck with all that leverage you like to talk about.
11-08-2018, 09:55 PM
#3015
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Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia
We get it you're a yes vote.
11-09-2018, 05:58 AM
#3017
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,341
Originally Posted by monkeybrains
Per firm $2.00/hr, agreed to a year ago, health care agreed to largely a year ago, own occ - never asked for it, updated ask - no idea, but the word is top ca rate of $245 so not likely, 15% dc - no idea, sure would be nice, min day, still open, overrides - taken off the table a year ago, 14 days off for reserve - never asked for it...etc, etc, etc.
You stated in a previous post that you have never voted yes for anything in 30 years, so again we get it your a no vote, why don’t you show some real stones and continue to work under your current rates, and give up your share of the 75 million dollar bonus check when this deal is overwhelmingly ratified by people that aren’t out of their fu@king minds? No you’ll gladly take the $100 grand and new rates and spout off about how you voted no.
If we are looking at 50-60% increases, increases in retirement,keeping our work rules and have a PBS system that doesn’t jack our vacation or bidding, you can vote no all you want, I’ll prouldly be a yes vote.
And...btw 26 new hires in the Nov class, single digit cancellations and pilots climbing over each other picking up VJAs, good luck with all that leverage you like to talk about.
You stated in a previous post that you have never voted yes for anything in 30 years, so again we get it your a no vote, why don’t you show some real stones and continue to work under your current rates, and give up your share of the 75 million dollar bonus check when this deal is overwhelmingly ratified by people that aren’t out of their fu@king minds? No you’ll gladly take the $100 grand and new rates and spout off about how you voted no.
If we are looking at 50-60% increases, increases in retirement,keeping our work rules and have a PBS system that doesn’t jack our vacation or bidding, you can vote no all you want, I’ll prouldly be a yes vote.
And...btw 26 new hires in the Nov class, single digit cancellations and pilots climbing over each other picking up VJAs, good luck with all that leverage you like to talk about.
If you were a fry cook at Burger King and you worked more days a week, got half the pay, worked harder, paid more for your healthcare, retirement was much less and basically had much less QoL than a McDonalds fry cook, would you agree with a 40% pay increase that STILL had you getting paid less and decreased your QoL even more?
Frontier pilots - you are NOT worth less than Delta pilots. Or United, American, Spirit, Jet Blue or Virgin. None of us are. We all fly the same equipment through the same skies to roughly the same destinations. Our one major difference is that WE fly more red eyes than most others. Yet, we’re considering VOTING IN / agreeing with less compensation than all those carriers? Less pay. Less QoL. Less per diem. Less retirement. And now, potentially less flexibility with scheduling. Really?
If the package that is presented is above industry standard across the board, then the vote will take care of itself. But I can’t believe anyone is really thinking that’s what will be presented. We already know our original ask was too low - best way to increase it is to vote no and go back to the table.
I’m sure the NC will say they gave their best effort - what else are they supposed to say (that they could’ve done better)? They’ve done a good job so far, it was our fault in the first place for having such a low original ask. I didn’t think the company was going to negotiate with us at all - it’s apparent they want this to work. This is the best negotiating environment we’ll probably ever see. Let’s let our NC go back and get what we deserve.
Last edited by dracir1; 11-09-2018 at 06:13 AM.
11-09-2018, 06:00 AM
#3018
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 1,454
It's very disturbing to see people fighting, speculating, and calling each other names. We do not have any information to make an informed decision or even speculate. To all of you guys hiding behind a screen name and telling everyone how dumb they are, quit it. You are the dumb ones. Only the minority of Frontier pilots post on this forum. The outcome of the contract is going to surprise. Now go on FLICA and spend the next t weeks bidding and tweaking your bid in monthly open time because line bidding is so ********ing great.
11-09-2018, 06:07 AM
#3019
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 251
Originally Posted by flycrj200
It's very disturbing to see people fighting, speculating, and calling each other names. We do not have any information to make an informed decision or even speculate. To all of you guys hiding behind a screen name and telling everyone how dumb they are, quit it. You are the dumb ones. Only the minority of Frontier pilots post on this forum. The outcome of the contract is going to surprise. Now go on FLICA and spend the next t weeks bidding and tweaking your bid in monthly open time because line bidding is so ********ing great.
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