Ridiculous.

If you think you are going to stay here, you'd be crazy to not take the money.

 

Easy to say when you aren’t on the hook. 3 years is an eternity in this industry and F9 is known for its predatory business tactics.

 

I agree. Only thing is the industry changes fast and therefore so do mindsets. I have seen countless people talk about how they love their schedule over at say a place like Spirit and how great the airline is….then you find out 6 months later they went to Delta. It’s amazing how much that QOL ends up not meaning enough.

 

We’ve been looking over it all morning. It *does* explicitly state that if I leave before the term, or am terminated for cause, full repayment is due (in 5 days, or else default and they’ll come after you plus all legal fees). Doesn’t say anything about leave or furlough. Just quitting or fired for for cause. So at least there’s that.

Right. I thing my uneasiness mostly stems from the car sales pressure. Plus, stiffing over anyone who has been here for 2 weeks or more.

My reading of the ACH authorization says that I would authorize them to pay into ABC bank at XXX account/routing number. It also seems to say at the bottom they are authorized to yoink it back out of said bank account. Quote:So in terms of hassle, probably no hassle for them. All hassle for you.

 

Brocklee don’t worry about the guys before you. Do whatever you think is best for you and your family. Sometimes that’s just how things go in this industry.

 

Actually your answer is spot on. It is a choice and I've analyzed every side I can think of while displaying all the facial expressions of a monkey handed his first Rubic's Cube. I've run numbers and thought about how it will affect my family vs. where I am in my career etc etc.. Recession looming.. I'd take a massive hit if I left and that means I'm most likely going to be here for the long haul. Happy to make your day. Anyhow man, you just totally dismissed all of El Gipple's points and data by saying "hiring environment" which was lazy at best and completely off point. He brings up good points in his impressively formatted post which is clearly finely tuned to push issues. Don't you feel they are worth a think? Your either on board with helping change the course of this place and bringing about a better contract through communications like this or you're not. Which is it? The car is stalled and you're pushing on the wrong end. The idea that you cringe at any negativity directed at Frontier is ridiculous.
Yes! It is a ULCC, I think it's a great model and I can get behind the idea we are providing a discount service for those who choose to utilize it. What has changed here is that we have crossed the line into being a sand trap for peoples money. The "new" model they have come up with is to scam our passengers in order to make more money through their coveted "ancillary revenue streams". Hanging onto to 220 odd million of customers money and being THE ONLY US AIRLINE TO BE FINED for doing so is the latest badge of pride we all get to wear.
So pilots are leaving. 4 out of 5 FO's I fly with have their apps out. Their beefs are those listed on this forum, but pay is only one of a constellation of issues we all have with this airline. Another funny thing is we get these videos in Docunet with overseas accents talking about "building the brand" and then they go out and drag it through the dirt! It's all a bit schizophrenic.

 

For sure. I missed out on the first year raises too but I was pretty excited to see them because that meant more people under me and more furlough protection. It is going to seem extra pushy simply because of your timing on a class date. It’s wrong of them to be that way but it’s their money and they can do what they want. Likewise so can you.

I forsee anybody who isn’t one of the big 5 following closely and initiating their own bonus programs

 

“ Retention Bonus” or just a deceptively named Training Contract?

Frontier couldn’t increase New Hire pay any more to attract Pilots because of the Contract. So instead of raising pay by $35K they have come up with this “Bonus”. A “Bonus” they can get back.

So, my question is, can you be hired and attend training without signing up for the “bonus”, not just this upcoming class but for all future classes? Is it going to be mandatory to accept this to be hired at Frontier, either explicitly or inexplicably, meaning, if you don’t want the “bonus” then you’ll never be hired? If not then it’s just another name for a Training Contract, a very expensive Training Contract. Aren’t most Training Contracts about 10K? Very bad form to spring it on the next few classes, especially if folks have already quit their other jobs and then have this thrust upon them. This should have been made very clear during the application and interviewing process. This might have looked good at first glance to the Company but I feel this will actually hurt hiring. I wouldn’t sign a 35K Training Contract, not when I could go elsewhere so easily in today’s hiring environment. I truly believe that this will reduce the pool of possible candidates looking at Frontier.

If the Company truly wanted a Retention Bonus system to keep Folks around vs a Training Contract, they should do as some other Airlines have done. A small bonus for showing up to class, a small bonus for finishing IOE, then a bigger one after a certain time period, say three years. Heck you could really lock some folks in with offering another Bonus after Upgrade. Mentally much harder to leave somewhere once you have upgraded. Now personally I’m against bonuses. I think bonuses outside the Contract is shady by the Company. It’s a way of getting around the Contract same as offering hotel rooms to New Hires. I’m not against the Hotel rooms, but doing it outside of the Contract weakens the Union’s “power”. The Company gets to offer something at it’s whim, to it’s advantage and possibly not fairly. Anything outside of a written Contract can be and is typically abused eventually.

Let’s call this what it is, an “Expensive, Non-Prorated Training Contract”.

 

I’ll second this. Pretty sure anyone currently on property won’t have an issue with someone accepting 25k. Thanks for the updates on the language.

 

I’m not so sure about this? The intent of that sentence is to tie the terms of a bonus to other non-management employees. 35k does put first year pay over 98.5% of second. We’ll see what happens?