Yes this needs to change. I read over these comments and it's like Gavin Newsom running for POTUS using his California turnaround story as the case of why I should vote for him, or be sad he is leaving.

 

This is a very good question. And the answer is just as good. AS LONG AS IT TAKES. However, I don't think it'll take as long as you think. Several reasons.

1). The make up of our pilot force is different than last time. It's younger. It's less Denver-centric. It's less tolerant of BS excuses of why we should accept less. The youth can "wait" for better results (or leave).

2). Timing is on our side. W/ the industry moving to 3 year contracts, the next cycle of negotiations will be here more quickly. For the Big 4, snap ups make it not that big of a deal for them of who gets how much - they ALL get the next incremental increase. In fact, their next round shouldn't take much negotiation as DALPA will set the bar and the others will instantaneously get the same rate. Only the non-snap up contracts have to still really "negotiate."

3). We live in a world with MUCH more information than last time. Our attrition is already bad - it'll just get worse the longer we go w/o a contract and with the rumors of what the next cycle will produce. The 3 year training contract FOs are starting to upgrade - them leaving after upgrade has more of an effect.

Here's a simple and LEGAL strategy we should adopt. We go to the company and ask for their best rates. TA section 3 on WHATEVER THEY PROPOSE. I don't care if its Delta-50, the same we have right now or even if its concessionary. Just get something on paper. Section 3 is ALWAYS the long pole in the tent. Then, negotiate the rest of the contract with the most improvements that we can.

Then, take that PoS contract TA to the MEC/LEC and have them vote to push it forward to the pilot group. But this time - instead of the roadshow song and dance patting the NC on the back and saying this is the best, just put the TA out and tell people to vote their conscience.

Then see what happens. Yeah, risky, I know. But, I'm willing to bet it gets voted down. I'm betting it doesn't even get 30% yes. I'm surmising this will be the singularly galvanizing event for the pilot group. Everyone's mad. Other airlines, when they learn of how low the rates are, will laugh. And even more people will bail. You want unity? The company's greed will make that happen.

So, this will give the NC the leverage to go back in w/ INDUSTRY STANDARD rates. Yeah, back to the drawing board. Much longer wait time. But keep in mind that attrition is just getting higher and more and more pilots are disappointed.

If, by some chance, the vote comes back > 50%, I will gladly refrain from any and all complaining, and show myself to the door.

 

Well brotha, I can sense the frustration and I really understand because there’s not one answer fits all. All I can say is either be willing to wait it out and actually go through the BS fighting for what’s right, OR the nuclear option—VOTE with your feet…. This option is a lot harder to deal with the adjustments and QOL hits but I can tell you for a fact we had people in my NH class at the legacy I’m at that had 4 years left before retirement. To each their own. I just hope there’s some unity that comes out of all this union change up happening for the pilot group.

 

I actually think this is the best way for our pilot group at G4 to show true unity: voting down a TA.

from what I’ve seen it is the only way to show management what the real demands are. I’ve pushed this type of strategy because the IBT is so corrupt and filled with so much drama and back stabbing that management (justifiably) doesn’t believe anything the IBT says at this point. We are in our 5th NC and with our seventh lead negotiator. I am not kidding.

Ling story short, I lurk over here more frequently now because I am super curious what the strategies are. I think this is one of the best strategies to get management’s attention and let them know what it will take to get a deal ratified.

 

the new kids DONT CARE and they are the MAJORITY…🙄🙄🙄🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Smart new "kids" with a legacy CJO in hand should still understand the importance of F9's outcome.

 

I’d venture to guess most don’t. Judging by the “me” mentality that a lot exhibit I’d bet they would vote to get any raise they can before they leave. Not all of course, but the ones who are just waiting for the legacy call don’t give a damn.

 

I'm not so sure about this.

One, they aren't as shallow as you might think (or at least they don't talk that way). They understand the importance.

Two, and most importantly, it makes no sense to vote yes for a PoS contract just on the basis that it's a PoS. Those that have CJOs from Big 4 might see a month of the new raise before they leave and those that don't might never get one. It's most self serving to "wait and see if something's better" than to take lesser and be stuck for a career. The vote, whenever it happens, will be very quick but the contract taking affect might be 6 to 9 months after the signing.

Sooner or later, this pilot group is gonna have a reckoning.

 

the equation might change if your thought process sees some sort of retro/bonus check. If you’re holding on a class date it might be a quick payday. Or if you’re dead set on leaving and only making your time here temporary any pay rates are better than current pay rates .
Or, you’re sub 5 years from retirement all of the above.

No one will ever tell you to your face they want a weak CBA for a quick payout.

 

I don't have the time to check the SL but how many are sub 5 years from retirement? We'll never know who's dead set on leaving but I'd surmise there are some who are pretty senior who were once that way as well.