Correction - It is starting to make me think . . . wait for it . . . FURTHER!

 

So you’re just now starting to think FURTHER! After your first rant post. Yeah ok that’s better.

 

listen we’re on the same side. The goal at this point in time is to get released from mediation to provide some leverage. The way to do that is not simply make demands and sit on our hands which you seem to believe is possible. We will get parked for months at the bare minimum. It would only hurt the goal of getting released. That’s not really up for debate. It’s pretty much a fact. Stay the course. You’re panicking imo.

 

Staying the course is all we can do for now UNTIL we get a TA - of course, we can't just demand w/o at least the appearance of trying to negotiate. We made the mistake of asking for too little (rate wise) and are staring at getting lapped. Most assuredly, the 1st TA we see will be short of industry standard. Everyone will say they don't want it but the proof will be in the voting. I'm spewing all this for THAT moment . . . mounting support for sending it back. We're at the same company and in the same union (which makes us on the same side), but I clearly want more than you. It'll take people like me to get it. You can thank us afterward.

Parking isn't really a fear yet; we're still in "give the company some slack" mode. Not sure why you brought it up (you can't be that scared already).

 

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
like we will ever get released!

 

Gotta at least try bro. Don't tell me you're scared too...

 

You’re clearly all about rate. I’ll give you that. But your lack of knowledge leads me to believe you’re willing to give up the farm on work rules. An example would be accepting pretty much any of the companies proposal so far. 4 credit vac, reduced sick, reduced guarantee, ect… so you’re willing to accept less. On work rules.
I’m positive I won’t be thanking you because you did nothing accept possibly voted no. You already mentioned that. Nothing last time not willing to get involved this time.

 

I know you try and paint me w/ the broad brush of caring about rate only but that's far from the truth (and you know it). It's certainly not ALL about the rate but it is clearly most important. We've been over why several times.

There are, of course, SEVERAL work rule categories - each of us has our own preference in importance. I do have some that I wouldn't mind allowing to be bargained away (for example, 125 over 82) and I do have those which ABSOLUTELY must not only remain but IMPROVE (reserve rules, vacation, 401k %, 5.15 min day, etc.).

We both EXPECT improvement in most cases - I just EXPECT MORE. I don't think there's much we should give to get. It's a RAISE. Happens every cycle. D-ALPA got improvements in MOST of the same areas I mentioned and more. UA sent the Tumi TA back. Hell, even NK pilots got more than we did (and they negotiated BEFORE us). Every union gives some but overal sum total is an increase. In a perfect world, our increases would include a rate HIGHER than industry standard so as to not only help ourselves but also the industry. I bet you can't even imagine that as a possibility.

It's like the difference between wanting hamburger or steak. If you're eating hot dogs, then hamburger may seem like a big step up until you realize everyone else has prime rib or filet mignon. And I'm aware of your previous (and possibly continued) union involvement and it makes perfect sense for you to defend the lower position. Your union service is admirable but not the results. You've been conditioned to ask for and accept less - despite my attempts to bring you up to speed. You most likely can't be helped at this point. It's all good though. Hopefully, there'll be 50.1% who do want steak. Voting is all any of us can do. I certainly wouldn't brag about being a part of the previous fiasco (other than my no vote then).

I'm not mad at you at all. In fact, our back and forth provides contrasting points that hopefully are helpful to many who are new or don't understand the process.

And, I can perfectly understand you not being thankful...

 

It was close to a 100% increase in pilot labor costs over the life of the agreement last time. Historically, that’s pretty good for alpa. Theres a perfect example of your lack of knowledge. Every rate (your number one metric) in our current agreement was higher than nk rates. This is getting pointless. Over and out.

 

I don't care if it was 200% increase or how historic it was. It brought us to the BOTTOM of the rate list at the end of the negotiating cycle. It wasn't enough. NK DID get more (overall) than us - wasn't referring to just rate.

If what you did was so great, it wouldn't need defending as vehemently as you are trying. Nobody, including you, would be pointing out the great # of areas that need improvement. Our NC negotiated it, our MEC/LEC voted to send it to the pilots (and spewed off all the wonderful accolades about how historic it was and that it was the best we were gonna get) and the pilots voted it in (out of the same fear you push here - getting parked, etc.). It was cowardly.

Now, just 5 years later, we are AGAIN so far behind that we'll need another HISTORIC, 100% increase just to get to the bottom again. Our current ask - RIGHT NOW - is less than in rate and other areas. The cycle continues - always behind because the 1st iteration was short and we didn't have the balls to send it back. And people like you promoted it, patted yourself on the back and were proud. And, as mentioned, 5 years later, the same fear and threats when someone else offers an alternative. Early opener for Delta is Dec of 2026.

Do you know ONE SINGLE PILOT besides yourself and your best friends that are happy w/ the current contract (as a whole)? What's the most discussed singular item of shortfall? Reserve rules? Vacation? 401k matching? Or is it the rate? Did we ever drop/swap/trade our way up to same compensation level as others?

Ask the next FO (or CA) that you see that's leaving why they're leaving. See if they mention that 100% increase we got 5 years ago...