You straight up said you’re coming from a place of ignorance and then wrote a whole post like you're an authority. I get it though, that just lets us know you're a real pilot.

The UNH survey was already used to shape the proposal. That’s not a secret. And no, they’re not going to release the raw polling because it gives the company a roadmap to divide us.

The economic proposal from November 2023 is still the one on the table unless something’s been TA’d, and that would be a pretty big update. We’d hear about it.

And yeah, “larger issues remain” probably means the same stuff it’s always meant—retirement, scheduling, reserve, pay. Not hard to connect the dots.

I get wanting more info, but if you’re not showing up to meetings or reading the stuff they are sending, maybe don’t act like you’re being kept in the dark.

Call your reps or send a DART. They’re actually pretty responsive.

 

I said ignorance regarding constraints on what info could and could not be released.

Mugatu made that same point a few posts back. I agreed his point had merit. Still, I believe it's better to release the survey data to the pilots despite that risk. Opinion difference.

I concede you're likely right on the economic proposal. Included with that proposal was an overall status sheet. It's been stagnant for 18 months. I think it warrants an update.

"Probably means" suggests you're guessing. You don't know for certain. Is LTD in your probably list? We should be better informed.

If you read my earlier replies, while I said I don't go to airport meetups, I engage via every other pathway. I read everything that's sent, listen to the 5x5, have called & spoken with reps, and I've sent DARTs. They are responsive.

Detail heavy not so much.

And I'm not a real pilot. I just play one on TV.

 

And how do you think this happens (a united group)?

First and foremost, we need information. We are a SMALL pilot group. UA/AA/DL just got new contracts and during their respective negotiations, the pilots I talked to seemed to be better informed about what the NC was seeking, how the progress was going and what was acceptable. The UA Tumi TA was a perfect example of unity. Since we don't have great info sharing, whether it's for fear of it being leaked to the company or some other reason, we have these BS dissenters and lack of harmony.

MM is the MEC president. He is NOT on the negotiating committee. He gets updates from them (albeit I sure as hell hope it's more than we get) but he is not in the room when the discussions are being had. Blaming him for ANYTHING dealing with negotiations is ignorant. From what I understand, there is a proposal to reduce the NC from 3 to 2 members and to have MM be the 3rd negotiator if/when needed. I personally think this is a bad idea but don't feel so strong as to recommend/support some sort of recall. And, if the NC has nothing new to report, then there's really nothing for them to report. We're in a tarmac delay program right now.

Everyone needs to calm the F down. Negotiations take YEARS. Part of the company's reason for doing so - besides saving money - is to frustrate the pilot group into dissension.

The ugly truth - the majors will be hiring in a couple of years and their contract cycles all start in 2026. If we don't have a contract by 2027, we should all leave. Yes, me included.

 

Exactly! Let's not forget that we are negotiating with Franke's mouthpiece. The HP pilots (Franke ran America West) had the longest mediated case ever at the time when they finally got an agreement giving them ~11% raises in 2002. We want 35%-50% + work rules.

Franke is a master at F ing with pilots. Saying that our NC isn't doing their job because they haven't TA'd anything besides parking is lame and ignorant of the situation. The NC could have TA's the whole thing if they agreed with the company and allowed for a cost neutral / concessionary deal. Our only legal lever under the RLA is to keep showing up at the appointed time and hoping the mediator takes pity on us (yeah yeah - going to the investment community and pleading our case - whatever). The NMB didn't work for the R.R. workers under Biden (PEB and imposed terms) and isn't likely to work for us under Trump.

When the DOT pot is empty, the planes run on time, and the pipeline is full Franke has zero incentive to do anything different unless the mediator forces him to. A change in the makeup of the NC won't change that. When the company refuses to negotiate in good faith but we aren't allowed to use self help, what strategy can the NC use to advance the talks? Pound on the desk?

When will we get a CBA? When the company decides then want to give us one. Keep updating your apps, work to live - don't live to work, and do what you need to in order to stay sane.

 

Bill Franke is 88 years old.

Not sure he is "F-ing with Pilots" anymore.

(this is not to say BB and others are not)

Based on investor webcasts, MEC communication, the "contract talks" is lacking the "talk" part.

Anybody negotiated with a fence post? How did that go.

BB has zero incentive to talk.

 

“Negotiated with fence post” Haha. Reminded me of the time that United pilot negotiated with the parking gate at Denver with an axe. Classic!

 

Be careful. You know what they say about pr#cks living forever....

He probably gets his jollies pis$ing off pilots.

 

He, and his two sons, are still very capable of F ing with us.

And, I was wrong about the 2002 HP contract. Their "contract 2000" was signed in 2004.

 

https://stocks.apple.com/ALqCldSV_Rq6KzKSS2_3ACQ

Barry is in attack mode.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-...-restructuring

Watch this space..