Hold on a minute. We are screwed because the pilot group doesn’t adequately “hate[]… the company”? Do you realize how juvenile an attitude that is?

 

"A house divided against itself cannot stand"

Like Jesus or something

 

No, no. For the last 6 months or so I've seen the pilot group turning their frustrations towards the union and away from the company. I've seen so many posts here, on Facebook and I'm conversations in person where it's pure anger towards the union. And to be perfectly clear, our union is us.

We are turning on ourselves and most seem to have lost sign of the big picture. How is the union supposed to get out unity, our solidarity, us to picket, strike, whatever if there's no trust at all? We are becoming a house divided as Jesus said /s

We don't need to hate the company, and I don't, but we need to stop complaining about every single thing the union does. I don't want to hear people b|tching about reps getting fpl and complaining that they aren't doing enough at the same time. A lot of people are getting distracted and forgetting that the company isn't respecting us at all.

There may come a day that the union asks us to walk off the job. That's not going to be easy, but it'll be a big ask if everyone is ****ed off at the union. Solidarity matters and a lot of people are spewing stuff that's breaking it.

 

well said. I’ll just say this about FPL. Our old agreement had very little FPL available during negotiations. A big part of the reason for that was an arbitrator ruled alpa needed to cover all FPL for negotiations. Of course when management needed concessions they covered all FPL. There was no language in the fapa agreement one way or the other on who covers FPL during negotiations. Just a total credit number annually which was ok during non negotiations periods and based on a pilot group of 600, single domicile, and labor friendly management.

Due to this fact FPL covered by management needed to be increased in any new agreement so that wouldn’t happen again. Last round there were folks putting in 30 hrs a week outside of flying with little to no fpl. Myself included. That’s just not sustainable for any length of time.

 

I leave you all for a few days and this is what happens. This is good I like it. There is a saying in Florida "You can talk **** to your friends ,But you better be nice to strangers" Does that apply to the internet? who knows. I will say you can never get to the heart of what's wrong without everyone voicing their opinions.

No I don't work for the Union, Also No I don't Volunteer for the Union. I am not opposed to doing such things, but the first step would be to go to a Union meeting. With that said I lack the temprement and people skills to really be effective. I would do it if necessary ,but there are many other people who fit this mold much better. In fact many of them work for the Union. I can go to a city counsil meeting without being on the city counsil or even volunteering for the city.

Truth be told there was a meeting possably 3 months ago in MCO. I did not make it. After 5hrs of driving and 6hrs of flying I just did't have another 5hrs of driving in me. (MIA based)

All I am asking for is some more meetings I suggest one every other month yes in every base. One every nine months or so leaves many pilots without any oppertunity to attend. Judging by the last few pages it does look like the pilots are becoming frustrated. likewise people on the Union people are becoming Defensive. Perhaps If we were all in a room with some coffee and water. We could talk about the issues in a Professional and civil manner (insted of **** posting on an anonymous internet board)

I understand the pilots fustration. Think about what has been happening over the past few years between the company and the Union. Things have not gone our way. That is compounded by the only Union contact being a once annual ground school, and an occasional memo. With limited information ,and the way we seem to get rolled by managment people will ask the legimit question of WTF. The meetings Give the pilot group a chance to hear from the Union, ask questions and size up their reps ability. Personally the only union rep that I did not think highly of was our previous MEC All of the other reps I have met are high quality people. Holding meetings is an important part of the work. It encourges Unity, Gets people involved. It is a good place to get volunteers, It allows the pilots that do attend to diseminate information to the pilots who coulden't. lastly it gives the pilot group a chance Make accusiations of the union which likely we would find a reasonable explanation or The MEC/LECs could ask those pilots to stop doing what they are doing because it dosen't look good. In either case it is doing basic mx on your people network.

Possibly we are on the right track and just seconds from victory, but it looks like what we are doing right now is not working. Are more meetings going to solve that... nope, but it is a start.

 

I’ll say it again—Call Your Rep. You can even call the MEC officers direct. They’ll answer. Tell them what you want.

Someone else said it earlier. WE are the union. And there’s way too much union bashing on this thread. Channel your frustration towards the company, where it belongs.

Again, call your REP or an MEC officer. You’re correct, you don’t have to volunteer. I hate the attitude that you can’t complain unless you volunteer. You’re a dues paying member who’s hard earned money is going to ALPA. You are ALPA. You have every right to complain. My suggestion would be to complain to the right source—your REP or an MEC officer. Don’t like calling? Email works too.

Here I am again beating the same old drum next to a different dead horse.

 

I'd like to think I learned a thing or two after the last go around, so hear me out: you have three very distinct options (four if you're willing/able to leave). I will outline them for your consideration.

1) Hate the company. End result = high bp meds, crappy home life, generally poor disposition to be around.
2) Hate the union. End result = high bp meds, crappy home life, generally poor disposition to be around.
3) Do your job and let the union and the company do their jobs. End result = continued issuance of medical certificates, enjoyable life away from work and a new contract on the same day you would've had if you chose option 1 or option 2.

Choose wisely

 

The other thing for many of those newer to frontier that may not know who they are dealing with there.

Within the constraints of the RLA there are only two ways the frontier management we start negotiating in good faith.

1. a staffing problem which is what happened last time due to outside pilot market forces. They solved that problem with their cadet program so that pressure couldn’t be applied again.

2. a strike

Read some history on the Spirit strike in 2010 and gain some clarity on who this management group really is. You are the union. Don’t blame your reps and leadership for lack of progress at the table. Blame the process and the opponent exploiting the process.

 

They solved the staffing problem (temporarily) by paying for training hotels and allowing the company to raise first year pay (up to whatever percentage of second year pay) at their discretion. But now our Captain's get paid less than a mainline FO. Whoever voted yes on that POS needs to take a hard look in the mirror.. but they all are probably at United by now anyway. The only way I see us getting a contract is via a merger, a strike, or when the regionals exceed our rates. Meanwhile we will continue to be the type rating factory for other A320 operators. RLA needs to go. We aren't a GD railroad.

 

The group here seems pretty confident that Musk will allow a strike. I don’t hold out much hope that we will be allowed to strike if the time came.