At the end of the day people, including pilots, are primarily interested in their individual wellbeing. We talk about virtuous things like supporting local business, ethical business practices, etc, but at the end of the day most people place their emphasis on how price and convenience affects us as individuals. It is what is, and I wouldn’t expect things to change any time soon.

 

I disagree. I think the Democratic Party has a major opportunity in front of them if they can capitalize on it. Their message is currently garbage and they need a way out that doesn’t involve fringe issues. The majority of Americans can’t afford to live and yet the wealthy get wealthier by a huge margin. Supporting not just the pilots unions but every union is a way out of the cycle. Flight attendants, mechanics, auto workers, support the workers of Amazon to unionize instead of peeing in a bottle in their truck, Starbucks, doctors, nurses, tradesmen….give the people a fighting chance again. Trump even said the right thing yesterday by talking about institutional investors and owning homes. Give the people power again. Be one of the richer people in the world sure but I don’t think Bezos should have a support yacht for his yacht. Come on…enough is enough.

“As this century draws to a close, it is time for professional airline pilots to recognize some hard political facts. From the point of view of organized labor, Teddy Roosevelt was just about the last friendly Republican to occupy the Oval Office. By income, education, and social inclination, pilots are emotional Republicans. But the circumstances of their workplace require pilots to be practical democrats. Airline pilots who call themselves republicans should constantly remind their fellow Republicans that their party has betrayed its historic legacy of fair play for unions. This legacy, which dates from the days of Teddy Roosevelt and whose proudest moment was the invention of the impartial fact-finding commission to investigate conflicts between management and labor, has been all but forgotten by Republican presidents since Teddy Roosevelt.” -Flying the line Vol II

 

Not wanting to get into partisan politics, especially considering that it’s supposed to be taboo here, but it’s going to be a hard sell in an environment where the public opinion of unions isn’t really that high, the ULCC model is collapsing, LCC’s haven’t turned a profit in years, Southwest is having to adapt into something resembling the typically more expensive legacies, and ticket prices are rising along with everything else.

 

Well you’re entitled to your opinions and I respect those and don’t share much of an opposing view. All I’ll say is the man in his place now is doing exactly what he told everyone he would, and yet somehow people are shocked at how much their lives are affected. Zero sympathy from me….

 

Leaving politics aside is generally a good idea. Why is the public option of unions poor despite them being needed more than ever in my lifetime? Who’s doing the union selling vs breaking?

We were profitable in 2023 (excluding the end of year valuation allowance we took ) and 2024. The ULCC model isn’t collapsing. It’s needed change yes but not collapsing. Adapt or die. Legacies adapted now it’s our turn to adapt.

Tickets prices are a tough one. Depends on your timeline. It’s cheaper to fly than the 90s still but 2023-24 saw large gains in prices that came back down in 2025.

 

The “sick after” memo is BS!
exactly WHEN does a pilot have to “verify “ they are fit to fly?

 

I think the deciding factor is that we live in a society of individuals all making self interested decisions. We’re obviously predominantly pro union due to our occupation. People in other union dominated fields feel the same way. Others look at unions as evil organizations demanding more pay for less work. The head of the teachers union is one who is viewed negatively by many as focusing on dues paying teachers while parents focus on the quality of the education that their kids receive. I live around and associate with predominantly lower to middle income people who are either self employed with small businesses or hourly workers such as mechanics/ranch hands/construction, etc. They are very anti-union. The typical story line that I hear is that they don’t want some union boss telling them when they can work, how much they can charge for their labor, what they must pay their employees, or under what conditions they agree to work under. They want to be free from as much government and union involvement as possible in all aspects of their lives. Without exception they seemed baffled that we would ever accept a union order to walk off the job.

 

If it’s not possible to determine future fatigue is it impossible to predict future illness? Say you’re on reserve and receive the appropriate notification sometimes well over 12 hours in advance and after notification you or someone that you can use qualified sick time to assist later becomes ill. It’s inconvenient for Frontier but it should not be punishable. Especially for pilots that must sign fitness for duty.
However, I can see that if a pilot were to be on short call and receive notification of a 2 hour callout and the pilot then advised CS that they are calling out sick is more difficult. There may still be valid situations. Kids and family are always a bit of a wildcard.

 

If you are on reserve and you are sick. Why would you burn a sick day for just over 4hrs of pay if you wouldn't get called, when you could just tell them you were sick if you did get called.....

In new, standard, pilot contracts, there is a thing where you can call CS, tell them you are sick, and if they need to use you, THEN they pull a sick day. If you wouldn't get used for your day, then no sick day gets used.

If you aren't fit to fly, you aren't fit to fly.

 

You are on duty sitting short call reserve. If you are sick, you need to call out at the time you are no longer fit to fly, not after being assigned a trip. Granted there’s always exceptions but it’s pretty obvious what’s going on. Either the pilot is not in position to fly (commuter) or they don’t want to burn up sick days unless they have to. Or in the current environment they’ve got a CJO and simply want to spend their days skiing instead of this silly, annoying job.