Virtually nothing that's been said the last 2 pages matters or means anything.

You can make all the analogies you like, you can compare us to anyone, but there's only one thing that matters. The NC is going to try their best to get us the best deal they can and then you get to his vote on it.

Everyone will have their reasons, and everyone will have their vote. That's it. The NC, ALPA, the NMB and the company will eventually come to a deal. It'll likely be disappointing and it'll likely get voted in.

 

Not only about contracts, but also about new FOs who somehow think they are inferior for being at a ULCC.... which isn't the case.

PS- No Snap up = No Vote.

 

Please stop this nonsense no snap up = no vote crap, we aren’t going to get that we aren’t a legacy, I believe we should vote yes on legacy rates with good work rules. The snap up is a straight pipe dream.

 

Neither is JetBlue.

 

No snap up is a no vote for me. It could be Legacy 321 rates within a certain percentage etc. but def a no vote. We’ve given the farm away with the no extra pay clause for 321s and 50
extra pax. On a 4 leg day that’s an extra hour of sit time we’re not getting paid for. Keep smiling and handing out the trading cards guys. 🤦‍♂️

Management is only interested in a M&A right now. When that happens we will get a contract.

 

Man, lots of differing opinions on here. Some are spot on (like immediately below) and some just cringe worthy - like the one below that.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. EVERY SINGLE PILOT UNION GROUP since the RLA has had the opportunity to turn down a pay proposal. It all depends on what you collectively decide to accept.

Having mentioned that, there are still some that believe there are aspects/items which can't be achieved or obtained. This is ludicrous speak to me. It's basically a display that mgt has done their job well of not only convincing people to accept less, but to also not even ask for fair compensation. Busdriver2000 - I hope you are either not at F9 or don't get to vote.

Make no mistake fellow pilots. YOU DESERVE THE SAME IF NOT BETTER COMPENSATION as every other US domestic flyer. You deserve the snap up clause. You deserve 5 weeks of vacation and 18 hr long call, and increased pay for converting to short call, and cheaper medical, and better LTD and 18% 401k (and whole lot more sh!t.). In fact, the OTHER AIRLINES are hoping that we get a higher rate so that THEY SNAP UP TOO. Pay rates should be a game of leap frog (just like NFL contracts for superstars). Not too long ago, Sun Country got Delta rates - it can be done.

So, keep in mind, the # of seats, the destinations nor the aircraft matter. In the history of airlines, pilots have never picked their routes, determined the type of aircaft they fly or its age, capabilities or limitations nor have they determined what price to charge the customer. We are a ULCC simply because the owner decided it. And he/they can change that at anytime. Honestly, I couldn't care less how much we charge, where we go or who we carry if you pay me the same as everyone else. There is now an industry standard for A321 pay rates. The ONLY way I fly for $0.01 less is if there are more YES votes to cancel out my NO.

 

Sorry. I have to ask. Why do regional pilots make so much less than a legacy? Do their unions suck? Do their pilots not know how to vote “no?”

 

Because their mainline counterparts have supported that system for decades, by not integrating regional pilots into their seniority lists and selling out scope, allowing a large chunk of low wage pilots to subsidize their much larger salaries. At ExpressJet almost 90 percent voted NO to a contract with concessions in every section. Within two years Skywest, with Delta and United’s help killed ExpressJet/ASA.

 

Several reasons:

Because regionals don't sell their own tickets - they are beholden to their mainline partner for pay for specific routes. The fly less people. They "traditionally" had less experienced pilots.

And to be honest, the pay difference isn't as great as it used to be. ExpressJet (no longer in business) had a GREAT contract back in the day...

 

You do realize a WB FO on 5th year pay makes $282/hr (plus international override) right. (Yr 12 $317) plus 17% DC going to 18% in Jan. So 19-24 years as an FO sounds a little better compared to your 12 year CA rate. And just a little history. The only time we've had 19-24 yr FOs was was during the lost decade. Barring LEPF getting their way and the mandatory retirement age going to 70 or higher, it's extremely unlikely. We had 3 year pilots getting CA back in the mid 90's much like today. But the other difference is we're just getting to our peak retirement decade. For the next 10 years UAL is retiring 500-700 pilots per year. Unlike a company with a single gauge aircraft, upgrades aren't linear. We have many FO's who go to the WB and park out there for 25 yrs until the "jump the trashcan" because of the lifestyle and pay allowing those with 4-5 years to upgrade on a NB to get that 4th stripe.

It's nice to have choices.

That being said, I'm truly hoping you guys get an amazing contract that gets parody (or better) with the big 4 NB rates. Our contract is amendable in a few years and it will give us a springboard.