Frontier Hiring.
08-15-2017, 04:40 PM
#8082
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus
Well there's the rub. Do you believe the projections? I have a hard time. Do you want to gamble your career aspirations on the track record of the Frontier leadership. That's the info I was trying to put out.
08-15-2017, 05:01 PM
#8083
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus
For those of you contemplating coming to F9. A little dose of reality to counteract any sales pitches you hear about growth and upgrades. In the two years I've been here we've only added 150 to the list. Growth seems to be coming from utilization. We use the crap out of these airplanes. Some "growth" comes from turning in 319s and getting 320s. The new routes they add seem to come from taking away other routes. Upgrades are anemic now, at best. The most recent upgrades are now 11/14 hires. That's now. There were about twenty hired each month from then on. Plus hold outs from previous classes, means that two years is now becoming three, and will deteriorate to 4, 5 and so on. The music will eventually stop. I have had decent seniority movement due to attrition, but again, how long until I hit the proverbial wall. Whatever numbers they tell you are just that. Anyone trying to tell you what a great deal something is for you is "selling" you. Do your research and realize that Frontier is what Mesa would look like if they flew bigger aircraft. if you still decide that F9 is something you are still interested in then realize that you are signing a training contract. Make sure you look at the health care, especially if you have a family. I've got family members who cannot get procedures covered even though they were ordered by specialists. It gets expensive. The hotels and locations are mostly sub par. Lines are OK at best. There is nothing to look forward to as far as seniority getting you a "good" line. Especially if you commute. All right that's enough for now. There are good things about being here but they are the same as any other airline. F9 is the choice I made consciously. It has been fine for me and that's all I'm going to say about that. I hope things get better here if I stay, and I am actively participating to make that happen. I know that getting hired at an airline takes time and work and you don't just apply and get a call. All I'm saying is I grabbed the low hanging fruit, and am dealing with my choice. Just don't go complaining that "they" said there was a lot of growth and I would upgrade in two years to justify the meager compensations here. Good luck to all of you searching to better your aviation career, but I sincerely hope someone else calls you first.
Last edited by I like BIG Bus; 08-15-2017 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Yellow didn't work
08-15-2017, 05:47 PM
#8085
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus
I've highlighted the major points for you guys who can't get past the obviously rounded numbers. My numbers are good enough for the point I was making. You don't have to take my word for it. That's the Beauty of it. I'd love for to be absolutely wrong in this but most of you know I'm close enough to the truth. Notice, no one is desputing the other points.
08-15-2017, 06:59 PM
#8086
Last To Know First To Go
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 605
Originally Posted by sled14
Well I'm not going to gamble anything on what you say. 2 years ago is August '15, the most junior in that class is number 834 out of 1140 on the Aug 1st '17 seniority list...
I do agree that the health care is not setup for a large family with all the surcharges. The insurance here is leaves much to be desired to say the least for family's.
08-15-2017, 07:26 PM
#8087
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by Bolo
Do us all a favor and go to the job fares and tell candidates face to face with your assessment!
Sorry, couldn't resist...just a joke guys...
Trust me, I've done my share of talking to people seeking info on coming to frontier. I've even used a silver bullet. I make sure I give them the whole skinny, the good the bad and the ugly. The one thing I can't convey though, is the utter disdain the upper management and decision makers have for the pilot group. When you finally realize that, it's an eye opener. Bad pay, poor hotels, ho-hum lines, training contract, pay for your own hotel in training, unfathomably bad health insurance, easily manipulated grievance policies, archaic retirement, no travel language even though it's clearly stated to be reopened in the contract if they get a base other than Denver, the fact that it's everybody's first day at all the stations. All of these things can be fixed with time, contract language and other means. But you cannot change the arrogant condescension the higher ups have for the line employees here. No amount of vacation sliding can atone for that.
And...
For goodness sake, Turbo, I said added to the list.... yes we've hired 300+ but have only added 150 to the seniority list.
1150-1000=150. Half the list here isn't going anywhere, we need to add a lot more for people here to get 2 yr upgrades continuing into the future. My point was to be skeptical of numbers for growth and upgrades coming from this company. I find them to be dubious at this point and time. I think you even found the forecast numbers for the rest of the year wanting. What they say and what they do are two different things. This is getting a little contrived. I'll see you guys at the next PUB event, picket or Whatever our future holds.
Cheers-
Last edited by I like BIG Bus; 08-15-2017 at 07:56 PM. Reason: Incomplete
08-15-2017, 07:52 PM
#8088
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 541
Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus
Well there's the rub. Do you believe the projections? I have a hard time. Do you want to gamble your career aspirations on the track record of the Frontier leadership. That's the info I was trying to put out.
I agree with most everything else you said though.
As far as health care goes it's expensive for a family. But as far as coverage goes it's good. My child has to see two specialist sometimes three every other month. we've never had any issues with specialist or required procedures. But yes, the surcharges need to go.
Last edited by SFA320; 08-15-2017 at 08:08 PM.
08-15-2017, 08:09 PM
#8089
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 298
I too, have benefited from attrition and utilization, but that's us and that isn't growth. Half the list here isn't going anywhere and the numbers don't match up. When are you projecting to upgrade? Myself, I'd guess 3+ for me and 4+ for your group. And I'm being very hopeful.
-Cheers
-Cheers
Last edited by I like BIG Bus; 08-15-2017 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Ingenious guesstimation
08-15-2017, 08:20 PM
#8090
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus
I too, have benefited from attrition and utilization, but that's us and that isn't growth. Half the list here isn't going anywhere and the numbers don't match up. When are you projecting to upgrade?
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