FlyASA

First of all I haven't called GoJet pilots scabs. I think what they did was in the spirit of scabbing but since no actual picket line was crossed they can't be considered scabs.

Secondly, how is GoJet or TSA supposed to get an industry leading contract when they are going to be whipsawed against each other?

Third, if the creation of GoJet resulted in an industry leading contract then that would be a different story, but it didn't since it was an alterego created by management to get around negotiating with the TSA MEC. Hulas didn't create GoJet to pay the pilots more than TSA, he created it because he wanted to pay them less then what the TSA pilots wanted to work for.

Did you even read my post? I clearly stated that is going to be the biggest problem moving forward. Hulas is going to dangle those 96 seat MRJs in front of both groups to see which will do it for less. Whether it's TSA, GoJet, or another alter-ego created by Hulas those jets will be flown at way lower wages and worse work rules then they otherwise would have if Hulas was negotiating with only one pilot group.

It will be terrible and we'll all complain about it and then we'll all look back and realize the situation never had to happen if the second seniority list at GoJet was never created.

Yes, regionals suck and I am underpaid and I would like to get more. The only way we can make contracts better is if we can negotiate, alter-egos remove the need for management to negotiate with us. They'll just start a new seniority list if negotiations stalemate with the current group of pilots. It's already bad enough we have to deal with external whipsawing caused by our major partners and our management (like the DCI shuffle) but if in the future we also have to deal with internal whipsawing (GoJet vs. TSA vs. TSH management) we'll have a much more difficult time improving anything.

Explain to me how the creation of GoJet or any other alterego is going to make it easier for us to do away with "lettuce picker wages" or at least make the pay rates a little better? We are all already handicapped enough, how is adding another level of difficulty going to make it better? It won't, it'll make the situation at regionals worse.

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Well, obviously I don't speak for everyone in my pilot group but if Hulas DID do that (and who is to say he won't) I personally would chalk it up to the way Hulas does buisiness. Don't you understand that this man couldn't care less about the people that work for him?? I'm not gonna cry & point fingers like most of you do. But, to each his/her own.

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Yes, I can. If they thought that they were SO WRONGED...then yes they should "raise that bar" you and others always cry about and QUIT. You answered my question just as I figured you would.

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Like I previously stated. Pilots always want someone else to "raide the bar" unless it may affect them. I didn't step on anyones back. Dario and ALPA gave bad advice and TSA drank the kool-aid. I will say it again, if all of the TSA pilots were THAT upset and applied all other actions with no result...the should have quit. THAT would be "raising that bar" now wouldn't it?? THAT would have "sent the message to mgt" etc.... Keep pointing fingers though. I know it makes you feel etter.

goaround2000

So what you're saying is that is Hulas, so not only should this type of behavior be accepted, but expected....Well Pause, if everyone in the industry felt the way you do, we would be paying our bosses to fly! You seem to be ok with someone else taking your job in the name of "business", I encourage you to look at the alter-ego Tilton is attempting to create in the name of business...you think that's ok too?

If the same circumstance applied to you, would you give up your number at gojets?

Comair raised bar, XJT raised bar, ASA recently raised the bar, even MESA made significant improvements to their contract in recent times. TSA was trying to do the same, but instead Hulas walked away from the table and open a new shop, and everyone who has gone to work there will continue to be responsible for lowering the bar. After all, you can't tell me you didn't know what you were walking into. A little foresight on the part of those going to work for an alter-ego, may not only help the industry, but their own careers as well.

outofwork

How is that wrong??????????

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There is always room for improvement at any airline. I feel that mainline needs to tighten up scope. THAT would be a great improvement for the whole industry in my opinion. That would be a good start.

AirWillie

How is that even possible to lower the bar, considering Gojets now has a better contract then Mesa and others as well??? Someone said things would have been better if Gojet had an industry leading contract. That can not happen over night! Comair, Xjet, ASA, Mesa have been in existence for a very long time. What about lynx, colgan and others as well, where are their industry leading contracts flying 75 seat airplanes for below 50 seat wages?

AirWillie

Then why didn't they secure it? What does that have to do with us right now? Gojet will be operating regardless. Stop reasoning in theory. Realistically, if tomorrow Gojet pilots stopped showing up for work, what would happen is Skywest, Exjet, MESA, ASA, Eagle, Pinnacle, PSA etc. would move right in the next day. And do it for cheaper and with a smile on their faces. You don't seem to understand that you and I work for the lowest bidder, it will remain that way until regionals break their contracts and start flying their own routes and 747s. It must be wonderland over there at ASA because every ASA guy I run into is very jolly about their job and the industry in general, are you happy being paid 30 dollars an hour to fly CRJ7s? Maybe it's because your management gives you an extra day off and pays you lip service?? Pot meets the kettle.

goaround2000

Willie,

We're going to have work on your reading skills, re-read the post. You and I both know that if gojets wouldn't have been an open-ended option for Hulas, he would've had no choice but to negotiate with TSA. All TSA wanted was what everyone else wanted, a better contract. gojets is directly responsible for undermining the existing contract, and hurting the efforts to negotiate a better one for TSA. The proof is in the facts, here we are 2009 and TSA is yet to get a contract.

Your take on the new company vs. an established company doesn't hold water either. The fact is a union at the local level is as strong as it's constituents, the original contract that gojets operated under was insulting, and the current one under the IBT is not much better. Take a company like Compass, their pay is not stellar, but they certainly make up for it with their work rules, that pretty much defuses any argument that a new company can't have a good contract.

You guys don't even have "block or better"! Face it, that's what alter-ego's are created for, to provide a similar product with a work force operating under a sub-par contract. Otherwise, what would be the point? He could have just operated the two certificates under one list. It's all common sense, it was a business decision to save money by circumventing an existing contract, and the ability of those working at TSA to negotiate for better conditions. Every time one of you guys goes to work at gojets, you reaffirm to people like Hulas that someone is willing to do it for less, and at the expense of anyone. I would be willing to bet that you will be one of the first people sending a resume to the United alter-ego in the works, because you don't think there's anything wrong with that either.