Purpleanga

That doesn't matter, GJ pilots are not losing out on much if they unite because GJ essentially has the same contract as TSA. So that part won't hurt them, as far as seniority, there could be fences put in to keep pilots flying seperate. It's just about job security and having unity among TSH pilots. Again the ball is on our court, they don't have to do anything. If you say there is a way for ALPA to do a hostile takeover, why haven't they done it?

NoStep

When AMR purchased TWA and it's assets, the potential for whipsawing Eagle and AA existed, and Eagle pilots DID refer to them as Alter Eagle as they started to operate in places like MIA, right? (At least that's the way alot of Eagle people felt) Did you guys, (I'm assuming you're a furloughed TSA pilot) push for a SLI with Eagle after purchase? Not trying to pick a fight, as I'm sure a furlough from Hulas has to suck!

Also, the American Connection flying may not have been an issue TO TSA PILOTS BEING HIRED, but it probably was for AE furloughees. Just food for thought. I don't like GoJet any more than you, and have never applied there even though I'm furloughed like you (OH), but the TSA business practices are not as lilly-white as you make them out to be.

I think this is the picture somebody was looking for earlier...at Flagship's old BNA crew base...(I kid...I kid)

250 or point 65

My God. The amount of misinformation on both sides here is laughable.

How can you guys be mad or defend a point when you have no idea what the real story is. Obviously it much worse on the GJ side because they will repeat anything they heard to rationalize their stance, but still, some of the waterskiiers need to get their facts straight too.

LOF'ers, you are in the right...now just figure out why you're in the right so the rest of us don't look bad.

Copperhed51

You're right, I remember the Alter Eagle stuff now. Believe me, I don't think TSA's business practices are lily-white...they are controlled by Hulas and his gang after all. I have to wonder why Eagle wasn't able to get their flying back from us sooner. Did they ever officially try to get it back before TSA went into MIA? I imagine they didn't care so much when they didn't have a bunch of people on furlough so they kind of just let it go. It was only when TSA was getting more AA flying while Eagle could clearly staff it that they got upset. I don't blame them and the mood around the TSA crew room was basically in agreement with Eagle.

There was a small chance of AA whipsawing TSA, AE, CHQ except the contract for Eagle flying prevented this since it said something along the lines of "all the AA regional flying will be done by Eagle pilots unless they can't staff it." Once they could staff it and had the airplanes, there was no reason for them not to get it back...and they have, right? Anyway, point is, TSA was not created for the sole purpose of bypassing Eagle pilots so to compare TSA to G7 is silly. And the argument that TSA lost everything while Eagle gained everything after the AA/TWA situation still stands. I don't think there's much room for TSA or Eagle to be bitter with each other.

Curious about the timeline. When did AE start furloughing and when did TSA stop hiring? I don't know think there was much overlap if any so saying that the TSA hiring was an issue for AE furloughees might be a bit misleading as well.

NoStep

We're actually in agreement on alot of this, and I don't agree with Zapata on everything, but he sometimes has some good points. (Have no idea whether he's one of the original TSA/GoJet types, though?)

And you and 250 are right...the timelines and misinformation abound here, and I knew that when posting. Eagle was not furloughing while TSA/CHQ were taking over AA feed, (they actually hired right up furlough almost in unison)

Don't think anyone has hard feelings for Connection guys...and most of us at other ALPA carriers hope you kick Hulas' arse.

I have a couple questions for ya'll;
)Why can't GJet guys collectively dump Teamsters and solicit ALPA? It would really be in their best interest with the CPZ acquisition.
)Who wrote this "white paper"? Why is it the gospel at TSA?
)Are there rumors now to get ALPA to combine all 3 in a SLI like Mesa did with Freedom. Alot of ya'll are suggesting that, but what do your ALPA reps say?

Thanks

Salukipilot4590

Hey Hey now...I've been out of the proverbial loop for almost 24 months (Funny but the best 24 months of my M-----F----- life) so I'm about as knowledgeable as a wet noodle....if my memory serves me correct.

This....couldn't have been more than a month or so....even if it was...the last two months of hiring were a total of 15 guys.

250 or point 65

First, TSA/CHQ did not "take over" the STL feed...the contracts were aquired by AMR as part of the TWA buy.

The GJ guys cannot dump the Teamsters because Teamsters was installed by management and is filled with management. Any attempt to stand up for pilots or the contract will end in termination.

Yes, SLI of all 3 carriers would be the best in the long run, but the only pilot group for that would be TSA. GJ will loose a TON of seniority so they dont wanna integrate and the chances of losing the flow will increase if the lists are integrated so guy who got hired at CPZ to go to Delta will not want to integrate.

The hostile takeover of the GJ list has to be done as part of contract negotiations. The contract would include a section where TSH agrees to admit they are a single carrier in an appeal to the single carrier court ruling. This would force the lists and airlines to be merged. So, for all of you out there who always question why ALPA never appealed....there ya go!

JayHub

How i 'remember' it.....

1. Eagle Mgmt put the word out they were planning to furlough
2. Eagle's MEC said you can't furlough if some of our flying is outsourced to a different carrier.....it says so right here in our contract
3. Eagle Mgmt said "Hmmmm ok"......."Oi Hulas give us our planes back"
4. Eagle got the planes back.
5. Eagle furloughed...... and the 10 planes that were sent to eagle resulted in 100 pilot furloughes at TSA
6.Eagle and TSA pilots on the Street

250 or point 65

TSA's MEC even went to Eagle's MEC and was like *** are you doing. Eagle Mgmt didn't say anything about furloughs. They were just going to get rid of a bunch of planes. Eagle pilots were just all up in arms about TSA doing Miami flying (even though there was NO net gain). TSA's MEC said that both pilot groups keep all their jobs if the planes stay with TSA, but Eagle's MEC told AMR to get the planes back anyway. Furlough notices went out at Eagle the week after the last planes came back.

JayHub

Basically if TSA had kept the airplanes, Eagle could never have furloughed! and...........TSA wouldn't have tossed 100 of us out.

on a second note:

anything out of our union concerning negotiations etc this week?