Tool of the day
04-15-2018, 09:22 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by 450knotOffice
If you request a jumpseat, and the agent gives you a seat in back via that privilege, check in with the flight crew. Introduce yourself, hand the captain your credentials and your boarding pass, and ASK if you may ride along.
04-15-2018, 10:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: Swimming, or drowning, depends on the day.
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by LNL76
Sigh....I guess common courtesy isn't common anymore!
The attitudes on here are mind-boggling!
The attitudes on here are mind-boggling!
04-15-2018, 11:38 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by Silver02ex
I see it the same way. On the other hand, if I'm listed as a ZED then no, I don't check in.
04-15-2018, 05:06 PM
Banned
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Floobs, this has nothing to do with bending a knee or some kind of power trip. It's all about PIC authority and the continuing attempt by management, gate agents and other outside groups to diminish and undercut that authority. We continue to successfully defend it, but that's far more difficult to do when we willingly give it up through apathy or ignorance.
It appears you're at AA and not an ALPA carrier. Perhaps APA doesn't take the issue of PIC authority as seriously as ALPA, but it's a pretty big deal here. Maybe you don't jumpseat off line, but if you do so on ALPA carriers, you might want to reconsider your attitude. Here's a link to the ALPA jumpseat guide: http://www.jumpseatinfo.org/LinkClic...=1283&mid=3170
I don't know if there's a similar document published by APA, but I couldn't find it. I'll provide a few excerpts below for you to consider.
New technology and the integration of security and boarding systems and procedures have combined to hamper PIC authority regarding flight deck and cabin access by jumpseaters. Proper use of the flight deck jumpseat is a time-honored enhancement to safety and security that must remain under the control of the PIC. We urge all PICs to review and decide upon each jumpseat request and not delegate that authority to any other individual.
The PIC of the aircraft also serves as the In-Flight Security Coordinator (ISC) per TSA regulations. As a critical link in the security chain, captains have the responsibility to verify each jumpseater’s identity and authority to occupy a flight deck jumpseat. When a jumpseat request is made, whether for a seat in the cabin or in the flight deck, the PIC is responsible for performing the following procedures:
1. Verifying company ID by means of face/name match
2. Verifying FAA flight and medical certificates
3. Verifying Cockpit Access Security System (CASS) approval
4. Briefing the jumpseater on any relevant items.
Most, but not all, airlines allow multiple jumpseat riders when unoccupied cabin seats are available. By regulation, the captain makes the final decisions, not the gate agent or CASS. Due consideration of union affiliation may also be recognized when conflicts arise.
In other words - If you, Floobs, show up for a jumpseat on a UAL flight and it comes down to either you or a Delta guy getting the last seat on the aircraft, the Captain can (and should) pick the Delta ALPA member over you - regardless of who showed up at the gate first.
He doesn't get that chance to make that call unless he's in the loop and aware of who is riding on his aircraft. Number one, he needs to be proactive and not relinquish his authority like Deadseal pathetically plans to do if he upgrades. But, part of that is you having the expected courtesy of requesting the jumpseat and presenting your credentials for his approval.
Finally, there's this last excerpt:
Always ask the captain’s permission and offer thanks for the ride, even if given a seat assignment and occupying a cabin seat; never let an agent rush you past the cockpit without asking the captain’s permission. FARs require that the captain authorize you and know you are on board. Identify yourself as a jumpseater to the flight attendants when boarding. If in the cabin, protocol requires non-revenue passengers and jumpseaters to board last and also deplane last.
It appears you're at AA and not an ALPA carrier. Perhaps APA doesn't take the issue of PIC authority as seriously as ALPA, but it's a pretty big deal here. Maybe you don't jumpseat off line, but if you do so on ALPA carriers, you might want to reconsider your attitude. Here's a link to the ALPA jumpseat guide: http://www.jumpseatinfo.org/LinkClic...=1283&mid=3170
I don't know if there's a similar document published by APA, but I couldn't find it. I'll provide a few excerpts below for you to consider.
New technology and the integration of security and boarding systems and procedures have combined to hamper PIC authority regarding flight deck and cabin access by jumpseaters. Proper use of the flight deck jumpseat is a time-honored enhancement to safety and security that must remain under the control of the PIC. We urge all PICs to review and decide upon each jumpseat request and not delegate that authority to any other individual.
The PIC of the aircraft also serves as the In-Flight Security Coordinator (ISC) per TSA regulations. As a critical link in the security chain, captains have the responsibility to verify each jumpseater’s identity and authority to occupy a flight deck jumpseat. When a jumpseat request is made, whether for a seat in the cabin or in the flight deck, the PIC is responsible for performing the following procedures:
1. Verifying company ID by means of face/name match
2. Verifying FAA flight and medical certificates
3. Verifying Cockpit Access Security System (CASS) approval
4. Briefing the jumpseater on any relevant items.
Most, but not all, airlines allow multiple jumpseat riders when unoccupied cabin seats are available. By regulation, the captain makes the final decisions, not the gate agent or CASS. Due consideration of union affiliation may also be recognized when conflicts arise.
In other words - If you, Floobs, show up for a jumpseat on a UAL flight and it comes down to either you or a Delta guy getting the last seat on the aircraft, the Captain can (and should) pick the Delta ALPA member over you - regardless of who showed up at the gate first.
He doesn't get that chance to make that call unless he's in the loop and aware of who is riding on his aircraft. Number one, he needs to be proactive and not relinquish his authority like Deadseal pathetically plans to do if he upgrades. But, part of that is you having the expected courtesy of requesting the jumpseat and presenting your credentials for his approval.
Finally, there's this last excerpt:
Always ask the captain’s permission and offer thanks for the ride, even if given a seat assignment and occupying a cabin seat; never let an agent rush you past the cockpit without asking the captain’s permission. FARs require that the captain authorize you and know you are on board. Identify yourself as a jumpseater to the flight attendants when boarding. If in the cabin, protocol requires non-revenue passengers and jumpseaters to board last and also deplane last.
04-15-2018, 06:37 PM
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,286
Originally Posted by Packrat
My company buys me full fare tickets and I still check in with the flight deck and introduce myself to the lead F/A. Its nice to know you have at least one trained ABP in the back.
04-16-2018, 02:20 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I do if I won't get in anyone's way. But not a big deal either way, if they need a pilot bad enough they'll ask for one over the PA.
04-16-2018, 05:05 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
As a full fare pax, on my company’s quid, I’ll say “Hey” to the cabin crew entering the aircraft, identify myself as an ABP, take my seat and await for a plethora of breadsticks and cognac
. Oh wait. We don’t get eight her of those on U.S. carriers.
. Oh wait. We don’t get eight her of those on U.S. carriers.
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