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Tool of the day

Old 09-13-2015, 03:04 AM
  #6821  
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Guess what, Sput? We're not talking about SOF here. They have a special mission reason to look that way. We're comparing the rank and file pilot to the standard military pilot. And, just BTW, the Navy uses 12 O'clock High as a leadership training tool.

The point of that training is that maintaining standards is one of the keys to maintaining professional performance throughout your operation. But I guess you entitlement babies wouldn't have a clue about anything but your own navel.
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:13 AM
  #6822  
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Uniform policy is exactly that, policy. For whatever reason our respective companies have decided on a particular uniform. The general public may not know what that policy is, but they can certainly look at their flight crew and be able to discern that one or more of them is not following that policy when they notice that the crew do not look "uniform".

U-NI-FORM - the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools - or - not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.

It is this inconsistency that speaks to a lack of professionalism in the eyes of our passengers. Do they care, or do they believe a hat makes a pilot more professional? Probably not, for most. However, there are some people in our profession who do care. It is not that hard people. If your company has a uniform policy, don't gripe about it, follow it. If you would like the uniform policy to change, I am sure most companies have a procedure you can follow to enact that change.
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:27 AM
  #6823  
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It looks like some tools of the day have infiltrated this thread.

Great post AC560. You are spot on.
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:15 AM
  #6824  
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packrat,

If ever get the chance to read the book it is worth the time

As most do the book puts the movie to the level of shallowness.
used to have the book, but it has disappeared during one of my many aviation company closing induced moves

na zdowie
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:23 AM
  #6825  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
Guess why? They didn't enforce the rules. Enough guys were breaking them that they rolled over and allowed them. Same thing happened at Alaska.

Pilots were required to wear hats. However, management didn't enforce the uniform reg, so plenty of pilots were leaving them at home. Eventually, if you wore your hat, you were the odd ball.

Suddenly, lo and behold!, the MVP Golds started complaining that the pilots were looking bad and Alaska management decreed the hat was again required. Hopefully, they're enforcing their own uniform regulation.

Personally, I liked the system another airline has (has?). If someone in management saw you without your hat, they didn't excoriate you. They just ordered you a new hat, had it sent to your house and deducted the $75 from your paycheck.

Gotta hit pilots where they live...in the wallet. Now, if you walk around certain mainline hubs, you can tell at a glance who the mainline guys are and who the regional guys are. And it has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with professional attire/demeanor.

Have you ever seen the movie 12 O'clock High? Its about a failing bomber squadron in 1942. When the CO is replaced, the first thing the new guy does is MANDATE uniforms, military regs, etc. Same thing in the movie Patton.

The theory and message is to get professional behavior and performance you have to start at the lowest level...uniforms, luggage, haircuts, etc. When people start complying at that level, there is a transferance that goes to all aspects of their performance.

So think about it. If you're slobbing around the terminal in view of your passengers, what message does that send to them about your ability to operate the aircraft in a safe, standard way? What do you think about the residents of the house you see with a bunch of rusty junk cars on blocks and garbage scattered throughout the yard?

Please don't project the "junior birdman trash" at work. It hurts all of us.
sorry, didn't quote your message where you reference 12 Oclock high in my previous post...hope this makes my previous post more coherent
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:38 AM
  #6826  
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Originally Posted by deadseal View Post
I have to say that if you accept money from a company and they ask you to present yourself a certain way, then it is "unprofessional" of you not to do as they ask. Or quit, but don't ***** about it.
Well, complaining is fun. But as it happens I otherwise agree with you. I hate ties and the hat is the hat but it wasn't a surprise and I wear it and try to wear it well. I have no idea why the industry has defined "professional" as looking like a Mormon missionary with epaulets, but it is what it is.

In my military career I noticed a subset of folks, sadly not completely confined to the training commands, who confused looking good for being good.
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:04 AM
  #6827  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
Guess what, Sput? We're not talking about SOF here. They have a special mission reason to look that way. We're comparing the rank and file pilot to the standard military pilot. And, just BTW, the Navy uses 12 O'clock High as a leadership training tool.

The point of that training is that maintaining standards is one of the keys to maintaining professional performance throughout your operation. But I guess you entitlement babies wouldn't have a clue about anything but your own navel.
I'm pushing 50 and spent just a hair over a quarter century in [military] uniform. Entitled? Ok.

The AF also used that film in PME. Rather poorly. They got pride because they got good, not because they looked good. I think its a great film. Unrelated, worth considering that the 3rd Army ran out of gas. Looking good no doubt.

Years (decades) back my platoon leader unexpectly gave us a series of not that complex marching commands. Which we completely ****'d up, nearly knocking each other out. With a warm paternal smile he (prior enlisted USMC force recon, ranger tab) enthusiastically said "executed exactly as a well disciplined infantry unit should." When we looked confused he added "you march like ****." Which we did. Even though we were pretty damn good.

I shouldn't be posting here, AC560 said it all already, and better than I could. So in spirit of the thread, I nominate myself for posting on a thread that used to be posts about tools but seems to have morphed into a thread of tools posting. Guilty.
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:43 AM
  #6828  
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Originally Posted by deadseal View Post
I have to say that if you accept money from a company and they ask you to present yourself a certain way, then it is "unprofessional" of you not to do as they ask. Or quit, but don't ***** about it.


Originally Posted by Keizer Soze View Post
Uniform policy is exactly that, policy. For whatever reason our respective companies have decided on a particular uniform. The general public may not know what that policy is, but they can certainly look at their flight crew and be able to discern that one or more of them is not following that policy when they notice that the crew do not look "uniform".

U-NI-FORM - the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools - or - not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.

It is this inconsistency that speaks to a lack of professionalism in the eyes of our passengers. Do they care, or do they believe a hat makes a pilot more professional? Probably not, for most. However, there are some people in our profession who do care. It is not that hard people. If your company has a uniform policy, don't gripe about it, follow it. If you would like the uniform policy to change, I am sure most companies have a procedure you can follow to enact that change.
Two more professionals who "get it." Thank you, gentlemen.....I love seeing MEN like you representing the industry.
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:50 AM
  #6829  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
Guess why? They didn't enforce the rules. Enough guys were breaking them that they rolled over and allowed them. Same thing happened at Alaska.

Pilots were required to wear hats. However, management didn't enforce the uniform reg, so plenty of pilots were leaving them at home. Eventually, if you wore your hat, you were the odd ball.

Suddenly, lo and behold!, the MVP Golds started complaining that the pilots were looking bad and Alaska management decreed the hat was again required. Hopefully, they're enforcing their own uniform regulation.

Personally, I liked the system another airline has (has?). If someone in management saw you without your hat, they didn't excoriate you. They just ordered you a new hat, had it sent to your house and deducted the $75 from your paycheck.

Gotta hit pilots where they live...in the wallet. Now, if you walk around certain mainline hubs, you can tell at a glance who the mainline guys are and who the regional guys are. And it has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with professional attire/demeanor.

Have you ever seen the movie 12 O'clock High? Its about a failing bomber squadron in 1942. When the CO is replaced, the first thing the new guy does is MANDATE uniforms, military regs, etc. Same thing in the movie Patton.

The theory and message is to get professional behavior and performance you have to start at the lowest level...uniforms, luggage, haircuts, etc. When people start complying at that level, there is a transferance that goes to all aspects of their performance.

So think about it. If you're slobbing around the terminal in view of your passengers, what message does that send to them about your ability to operate the aircraft in a safe, standard way? What do you think about the residents of the house you see with a bunch of rusty junk cars on blocks and garbage scattered throughout the yard?

Please don't project the "junior birdman trash" at work. It hurts all of us.
Well put. Where is the "Like" button?
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Old 09-13-2015, 08:07 AM
  #6830  
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One last time...if your company has a uniform policy, follow it. This job is so good, I'd wear a pink bunny suit if the company required it.
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