Tool of the day
09-13-2015, 02:04 AM
#6821
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Guess what, Sput? We're not talking about SOF here. They have a special mission reason to look that way. We're comparing the rank and file pilot to the standard military pilot. And, just BTW, the Navy uses 12 O'clock High as a leadership training tool.
The point of that training is that maintaining standards is one of the keys to maintaining professional performance throughout your operation. But I guess you entitlement babies wouldn't have a clue about anything but your own navel.
The point of that training is that maintaining standards is one of the keys to maintaining professional performance throughout your operation. But I guess you entitlement babies wouldn't have a clue about anything but your own navel.
09-13-2015, 03:13 AM
#6822
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 188
Uniform policy is exactly that, policy. For whatever reason our respective companies have decided on a particular uniform. The general public may not know what that policy is, but they can certainly look at their flight crew and be able to discern that one or more of them is not following that policy when they notice that the crew do not look "uniform".
U-NI-FORM - the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools - or - not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.
It is this inconsistency that speaks to a lack of professionalism in the eyes of our passengers. Do they care, or do they believe a hat makes a pilot more professional? Probably not, for most. However, there are some people in our profession who do care. It is not that hard people. If your company has a uniform policy, don't gripe about it, follow it. If you would like the uniform policy to change, I am sure most companies have a procedure you can follow to enact that change.
U-NI-FORM - the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools - or - not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.
It is this inconsistency that speaks to a lack of professionalism in the eyes of our passengers. Do they care, or do they believe a hat makes a pilot more professional? Probably not, for most. However, there are some people in our profession who do care. It is not that hard people. If your company has a uniform policy, don't gripe about it, follow it. If you would like the uniform policy to change, I am sure most companies have a procedure you can follow to enact that change.
09-13-2015, 04:15 AM
#6824
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 741
packrat,
If ever get the chance to read the book it is worth the time
As most do the book puts the movie to the level of shallowness.
used to have the book, but it has disappeared during one of my many aviation company closing induced moves
na zdowie
If ever get the chance to read the book it is worth the time
As most do the book puts the movie to the level of shallowness.
used to have the book, but it has disappeared during one of my many aviation company closing induced moves
na zdowie
09-13-2015, 04:23 AM
#6825
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 741
Originally Posted by Packrat
Guess why? They didn't enforce the rules. Enough guys were breaking them that they rolled over and allowed them. Same thing happened at Alaska.
Pilots were required to wear hats. However, management didn't enforce the uniform reg, so plenty of pilots were leaving them at home. Eventually, if you wore your hat, you were the odd ball.
Suddenly, lo and behold!, the MVP Golds started complaining that the pilots were looking bad and Alaska management decreed the hat was again required. Hopefully, they're enforcing their own uniform regulation.
Personally, I liked the system another airline has (has?). If someone in management saw you without your hat, they didn't excoriate you. They just ordered you a new hat, had it sent to your house and deducted the $75 from your paycheck.
Gotta hit pilots where they live...in the wallet. Now, if you walk around certain mainline hubs, you can tell at a glance who the mainline guys are and who the regional guys are. And it has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with professional attire/demeanor.
Have you ever seen the movie 12 O'clock High? Its about a failing bomber squadron in 1942. When the CO is replaced, the first thing the new guy does is MANDATE uniforms, military regs, etc. Same thing in the movie Patton.
The theory and message is to get professional behavior and performance you have to start at the lowest level...uniforms, luggage, haircuts, etc. When people start complying at that level, there is a transferance that goes to all aspects of their performance.
So think about it. If you're slobbing around the terminal in view of your passengers, what message does that send to them about your ability to operate the aircraft in a safe, standard way? What do you think about the residents of the house you see with a bunch of rusty junk cars on blocks and garbage scattered throughout the yard?
Please don't project the "junior birdman trash" at work. It hurts all of us.
Pilots were required to wear hats. However, management didn't enforce the uniform reg, so plenty of pilots were leaving them at home. Eventually, if you wore your hat, you were the odd ball.
Suddenly, lo and behold!, the MVP Golds started complaining that the pilots were looking bad and Alaska management decreed the hat was again required. Hopefully, they're enforcing their own uniform regulation.
Personally, I liked the system another airline has (has?). If someone in management saw you without your hat, they didn't excoriate you. They just ordered you a new hat, had it sent to your house and deducted the $75 from your paycheck.
Gotta hit pilots where they live...in the wallet. Now, if you walk around certain mainline hubs, you can tell at a glance who the mainline guys are and who the regional guys are. And it has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with professional attire/demeanor.
Have you ever seen the movie 12 O'clock High? Its about a failing bomber squadron in 1942. When the CO is replaced, the first thing the new guy does is MANDATE uniforms, military regs, etc. Same thing in the movie Patton.
The theory and message is to get professional behavior and performance you have to start at the lowest level...uniforms, luggage, haircuts, etc. When people start complying at that level, there is a transferance that goes to all aspects of their performance.
So think about it. If you're slobbing around the terminal in view of your passengers, what message does that send to them about your ability to operate the aircraft in a safe, standard way? What do you think about the residents of the house you see with a bunch of rusty junk cars on blocks and garbage scattered throughout the yard?
Please don't project the "junior birdman trash" at work. It hurts all of us.
09-13-2015, 05:38 AM
#6826
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,074
Originally Posted by deadseal
I have to say that if you accept money from a company and they ask you to present yourself a certain way, then it is "unprofessional" of you not to do as they ask. Or quit, but don't ***** about it.
In my military career I noticed a subset of folks, sadly not completely confined to the training commands, who confused looking good for being good.
09-13-2015, 06:04 AM
#6827
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,074
Originally Posted by Packrat
Guess what, Sput? We're not talking about SOF here. They have a special mission reason to look that way. We're comparing the rank and file pilot to the standard military pilot. And, just BTW, the Navy uses 12 O'clock High as a leadership training tool.
The point of that training is that maintaining standards is one of the keys to maintaining professional performance throughout your operation. But I guess you entitlement babies wouldn't have a clue about anything but your own navel.
The point of that training is that maintaining standards is one of the keys to maintaining professional performance throughout your operation. But I guess you entitlement babies wouldn't have a clue about anything but your own navel.
The AF also used that film in PME. Rather poorly. They got pride because they got good, not because they looked good. I think its a great film. Unrelated, worth considering that the 3rd Army ran out of gas. Looking good no doubt.
Years (decades) back my platoon leader unexpectly gave us a series of not that complex marching commands. Which we completely ****'d up, nearly knocking each other out. With a warm paternal smile he (prior enlisted USMC force recon, ranger tab) enthusiastically said "executed exactly as a well disciplined infantry unit should." When we looked confused he added "you march like ****." Which we did. Even though we were pretty damn good.
I shouldn't be posting here, AC560 said it all already, and better than I could. So in spirit of the thread, I nominate myself for posting on a thread that used to be posts about tools but seems to have morphed into a thread of tools posting. Guilty.
09-13-2015, 06:43 AM
#6828
Junior Senior
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Whiskey Papa
Posts: 2,850
Originally Posted by deadseal
I have to say that if you accept money from a company and they ask you to present yourself a certain way, then it is "unprofessional" of you not to do as they ask. Or quit, but don't ***** about it.
Originally Posted by Keizer Soze
Uniform policy is exactly that, policy. For whatever reason our respective companies have decided on a particular uniform. The general public may not know what that policy is, but they can certainly look at their flight crew and be able to discern that one or more of them is not following that policy when they notice that the crew do not look "uniform".
U-NI-FORM - the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools - or - not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.
It is this inconsistency that speaks to a lack of professionalism in the eyes of our passengers. Do they care, or do they believe a hat makes a pilot more professional? Probably not, for most. However, there are some people in our profession who do care. It is not that hard people. If your company has a uniform policy, don't gripe about it, follow it. If you would like the uniform policy to change, I am sure most companies have a procedure you can follow to enact that change.
U-NI-FORM - the distinctive clothing worn by members of the same organization or body or by children attending certain schools - or - not changing in form or character; remaining the same in all cases and at all times.
It is this inconsistency that speaks to a lack of professionalism in the eyes of our passengers. Do they care, or do they believe a hat makes a pilot more professional? Probably not, for most. However, there are some people in our profession who do care. It is not that hard people. If your company has a uniform policy, don't gripe about it, follow it. If you would like the uniform policy to change, I am sure most companies have a procedure you can follow to enact that change.
09-13-2015, 06:50 AM
#6829
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by Packrat
Guess why? They didn't enforce the rules. Enough guys were breaking them that they rolled over and allowed them. Same thing happened at Alaska.
Pilots were required to wear hats. However, management didn't enforce the uniform reg, so plenty of pilots were leaving them at home. Eventually, if you wore your hat, you were the odd ball.
Suddenly, lo and behold!, the MVP Golds started complaining that the pilots were looking bad and Alaska management decreed the hat was again required. Hopefully, they're enforcing their own uniform regulation.
Personally, I liked the system another airline has (has?). If someone in management saw you without your hat, they didn't excoriate you. They just ordered you a new hat, had it sent to your house and deducted the $75 from your paycheck.
Gotta hit pilots where they live...in the wallet. Now, if you walk around certain mainline hubs, you can tell at a glance who the mainline guys are and who the regional guys are. And it has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with professional attire/demeanor.
Have you ever seen the movie 12 O'clock High? Its about a failing bomber squadron in 1942. When the CO is replaced, the first thing the new guy does is MANDATE uniforms, military regs, etc. Same thing in the movie Patton.
The theory and message is to get professional behavior and performance you have to start at the lowest level...uniforms, luggage, haircuts, etc. When people start complying at that level, there is a transferance that goes to all aspects of their performance.
So think about it. If you're slobbing around the terminal in view of your passengers, what message does that send to them about your ability to operate the aircraft in a safe, standard way? What do you think about the residents of the house you see with a bunch of rusty junk cars on blocks and garbage scattered throughout the yard?
Please don't project the "junior birdman trash" at work. It hurts all of us.
Pilots were required to wear hats. However, management didn't enforce the uniform reg, so plenty of pilots were leaving them at home. Eventually, if you wore your hat, you were the odd ball.
Suddenly, lo and behold!, the MVP Golds started complaining that the pilots were looking bad and Alaska management decreed the hat was again required. Hopefully, they're enforcing their own uniform regulation.
Personally, I liked the system another airline has (has?). If someone in management saw you without your hat, they didn't excoriate you. They just ordered you a new hat, had it sent to your house and deducted the $75 from your paycheck.
Gotta hit pilots where they live...in the wallet. Now, if you walk around certain mainline hubs, you can tell at a glance who the mainline guys are and who the regional guys are. And it has nothing to do with age. It has everything to do with professional attire/demeanor.
Have you ever seen the movie 12 O'clock High? Its about a failing bomber squadron in 1942. When the CO is replaced, the first thing the new guy does is MANDATE uniforms, military regs, etc. Same thing in the movie Patton.
The theory and message is to get professional behavior and performance you have to start at the lowest level...uniforms, luggage, haircuts, etc. When people start complying at that level, there is a transferance that goes to all aspects of their performance.
So think about it. If you're slobbing around the terminal in view of your passengers, what message does that send to them about your ability to operate the aircraft in a safe, standard way? What do you think about the residents of the house you see with a bunch of rusty junk cars on blocks and garbage scattered throughout the yard?
Please don't project the "junior birdman trash" at work. It hurts all of us.
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