Originally Posted by HighFlight

9E is putting people with 1000 121 hours into the left seat as soon as they are out of training. That means new hire-to-CA is taking about 4-5 months. So BeatNavy is correct in his calculations. Let’s do a 5-year comparison with “now” rates:

So a new hire at JB right now can expect to make CA in 5 years (maybe more?). 9E will be a CA in 4 months ~ 2 years, depending on hours.

Year 1 JB - $54 X 75 X 12 = $48,600
Year 2 JB - $85 X 70 X 12 = $71,400
Year 3 JB - $100 X 70 X 12 = $84,000
Year 4 JB - $109 X 70 X 12 = $91,560
Year 5 JB - $114 X 70 X 12 = $95,760 ($391,320 total)

Year 1 9E - $50 X 75 X 12 = $45,000
Year 2 9E - $86 X 75 X 12 = $77,400 (CA)
Year 3 9E - $88 X 75 X 12 = $79,200
Year 4 9E - $90 X 75 X 12 = $81,000
Year 5 9E - $92 X 75 X 12 = $82,800 ($365,400 total)

9E guy with 2 years &enough hours to move to JB, and is on the fence about it:

Year 3 CA - $88 X 75 X 12 = $79,200
Year 4 CA - $90 X 75 X 12 = $81,000
Year 5 CA - $92 X 75 X 12 = $82,800
Year 6 CA - $94 X 75 X 12 = $84,600
Year 7 CA - $96 X 75 X 12 = $86,400 ($414,000 total)

Two different scenarios, comparing straight-up new hires at each, and one showing a person moving from 9E to B6. As you can see, there is not a whole lot of financial reason to leave 9E, especially considering all the talk on this forum about how miserable life is at JB. Not the case at 9E; management has treated us well.

Now obviously, after one makes CA at JB, it then blows 9E CA pay out of the skies.

9E - $96 X 75 X 12 = $86,400 vs.
B6 - $185 X 70 X 12 = $155,400

And you’re right, eventually the CA quick upgrade thing will slow down, but I don’t see it doing so in the next year or more. In fact, it has only gotten faster in the past 24 months. And with a fair amount of attrition off the top, that movement will continue.

Bear in mind my analysis is simply trying to point out that the differences between JB and the top-paying regional is not all that far of a gap to bridge. It SHOULD be, since your company is a major airline, and I HOPE that gets larger, very soon, for the sake of every pilot on property. But right now, JB is enjoying some pretty large profits which are as large as they are partly because the pilot group makes minimally more than a regional group in the first 5 years.

7% more income at JB in 5 years, if considering straight new hires at each place.

$49,000 less pay at JB than 9E for a person looking to move up.

Originally Posted by pilot3198

I’m sure I’ll regret commenting on this, but if you’re interested in a different angle - I left Southwest for Jetblue after being there for about a year in 2005. I made my decision at the time based on living in base and thinking the two companies were very similar. Well, I personally find the differences between the two companies quite vast. Not just in how the operation is run, but many other things such as; the lower value put on pilots, the poor pilot-flight attendant relationship (which I think is greatly driven by their expectation of pilots cleaning the cabin), the poor work rules and quality of trips (i.e., redeye’s, lack of calender day minimum), vacation allotment, and my biggest complaint; hotels (i.e., Tacoma), etc.



Southwest may not be Delta, American, or United, but at least I felt that I worked for a ‘major’ airline. I equate working at Jetblue to playing minor league baseball. Not the worst minor league team, but not the majors. Don’t get me wrong; I make the best of my job (no sense in hating life or having regrets) and I do get to drive to and from work. But would I make the same decision again - absolutely not!

Originally Posted by nuball5

These numbers would make sense if JetBlue went all E190, but it's only a quarter of Jetblue's fleet. Anyone staying as a 5 year FO on the 190 is probably doing it strictly for QOL.

Originally Posted by pilotpayne

This is why some of these arguments are ridiculous. We are using “some facts” to make arguments while ignoring others as you just pointed out. We also have people talking about “guaranteed flows “ history tends to not agree with that idea. We are also comparing Fedex to JetBlue....really heck guys leave the majors or that vaunted Southwest to go to Fedex. Apparently as another guy said life is miserable here, I think that’s a bit of a stretch. And to finish it off we all assume this will be the status here forever (bluedriver I’m still waiting for a date for the CBA vs sometime in the future).
I am not defending Blue here at all but I do think we need to matain just a little perspective. I will say it again as I have before. JetBlue is a “regional player” it is east coast focused, it flys narrow body aircraft and has a schedule that focuses heavily on the vacation flyers. We are working on a first contract and have literally altered the culture here by doing the right thing and voting in a union. It’s a painful time and managment is being management. If you come here expecting anything else you are not going to be happy. Will it get better I absolutely think it will but it’s not easy getting to that point. The difference here is we are not the only game in town. Again absolutely not defending just trying to be a realist. If you don’t want to be here (and it’s sad if that’s the case and JetBlue is largely to blame) update your apps and go. There is no point to be unhappy in such an amazing hiring environment.

Originally Posted by pilotpayne

This is why some of these arguments are ridiculous. We are using “some facts” to make arguments while ignoring others as you just pointed out. We also have people talking about “guaranteed flows “ history tends to not agree with that idea. We are also comparing Fedex to JetBlue....really heck guys leave the majors or that vaunted Southwest to go to Fedex. Apparently as another guy said life is miserable here, I think that’s a bit of a stretch. And to finish it off we all assume this will be the status here forever (bluedriver I’m still waiting for a date for the CBA vs sometime in the future).
I am not defending Blue here at all but I do think we need to matain just a little perspective. I will say it again as I have before. JetBlue is a “regional player” it is east coast focused, it flys narrow body aircraft and has a schedule that focuses heavily on the vacation flyers. We are working on a first contract and have literally altered the culture here by doing the right thing and voting in a union. It’s a painful time and managment is being management. If you come here expecting anything else you are not going to be happy. Will it get better I absolutely think it will but it’s not easy getting to that point. The difference here is we are not the only game in town. Again absolutely not defending just trying to be a realist. If you don’t want to be here (and it’s sad if that’s the case and JetBlue is largely to blame) update your apps and go. There is no point to be unhappy in such an amazing hiring environment.

Originally Posted by HighFlight

Just to be clear, I have never implied that leaving JB for a regional was a good idea. In fact, leaving a regional for ANYWHERE that YOUR airline's name is on the ticket is a good idea.

I was just responding to those who say JB is far an above a regional when it comes to pay and QOL. That may not be quite so true, and is something to consider as one is planning to make a career move.

I would further state that even with a pay cut, going from a regional to JB or any other major is a smart move. 2-3 years down the road, you'll be glad you did, I am sure.

I simply posted those numbers (using the lower paying acft at both B6 and 9E) to show how small the pay gap has become. Fingers crossed for you to get that CBA sooner rather than later!

Originally Posted by slimothy

Again, for whatever reason, it just isn’t that easy for some of us. I update regularly, have been for a few years. Internals at DAL
Haven’t done the trick for me. So until I get that call, I’m stuck here, and I’m going to demand better from the company.