The TA is finally here
06-25-2018 | 04:05 PM
#101
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Joined: Sep 2014
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From: fifi whisperer
Maybe I'm having a brain aneurysm, but I like this CBA.
Scheduling is industry leading. Better than "the big 3." Scope is very good. Insurance is "meh" and the implementation LOA is disappointing.
Fyi. To all you FL guys who commute to JFK/BOS they have global opentime. For those that don't, there are good protections to make sure the in base folks have first dibs. This is a huge selling point (especially to FL folks)
Scheduling is industry leading. Better than "the big 3." Scope is very good. Insurance is "meh" and the implementation LOA is disappointing.
Fyi. To all you FL guys who commute to JFK/BOS they have global opentime. For those that don't, there are good protections to make sure the in base folks have first dibs. This is a huge selling point (especially to FL folks)
06-25-2018 | 04:11 PM
#103
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: A220 CA
so let's talk scope. for the people saying that swa scope is better, and i am sure it is, explain how it is better please. i am trying to understand it. i read the scope section of our ta, and seems really good. i am just trying to understand how it could be better.
and if the only way it could be better is because of how we have codeshares now, then i can see how that is the part that is missing. but if there is something beyond that, i am not seeing it.
are there any other ways in which our ta's scope could be better? thanks for any input.
and if the only way it could be better is because of how we have codeshares now, then i can see how that is the part that is missing. but if there is something beyond that, i am not seeing it.
are there any other ways in which our ta's scope could be better? thanks for any input.
06-25-2018 | 04:14 PM
#104
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: A220 CA
here's another question: system bid. why is it better to have only one system bid per year, instead of the way we do it now, with 4 of them per year? i assume it is better, or it wouldn't be changed.
06-25-2018 | 04:15 PM
#105
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Joined: Nov 2008
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06-25-2018 | 04:17 PM
#106
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Joined: Sep 2014
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From: fifi whisperer
1. Scope: This is not SWA scope. Ha will still be flying 321's to Honolulu on our code. We will be feeding everyone else's wide bodies. This continues and expands as long as we are "growing". A growth rate of .001% will be sufficient. Never mind we could be growing 15% without it.
Oh, but if we stop growing we can claw it all back. Riiiight.
because when the company is falling on hard times it will be a cake walk to eliminate highly profitable code shares. Scope is weak.
2. Work rules: Yes there are some improvements, but there are also concessions. Reserve was touted as "going senior its so good!" Yea, it will go senior because those are the only guys getting LCR. For everyone else it's pretty much the same. 17 days in a crash pad. Someone will fly those redeye turns fellas.
Still doing post flights.
Still cleaning while standby.
No jumps seating or allowing OAL in mint.
No crew meals on transcons.
Pairing construction? Unstacking? I guess these are improvements but I do not see how they are large ones. The way I read it the pairings honestly won't change much.
The company can make you go to the doctor if sick? Isn't that one of the reasons DAL voted theirs down? Along with IOE trips (which we also give up).
OH, and let's not forget the big one. BINDING ARBITRATION FOR NEW AIRCRAFT. Huge huge huge giveaway.
3. Pay: *sigh*
Kick in the nuts. When you account for the loss of PTO sell back this area ranges from 1%-10% increase. We will be near the bottom. We have talked at length about how bad the rates are. Where are those amazing work rules that were gong to make up for us dragging the industry down? I'm still waiting.
Oh, but if we stop growing we can claw it all back. Riiiight.
because when the company is falling on hard times it will be a cake walk to eliminate highly profitable code shares. Scope is weak. 2. Work rules: Yes there are some improvements, but there are also concessions. Reserve was touted as "going senior its so good!" Yea, it will go senior because those are the only guys getting LCR. For everyone else it's pretty much the same. 17 days in a crash pad. Someone will fly those redeye turns fellas.
Still doing post flights.
Still cleaning while standby.
No jumps seating or allowing OAL in mint.
No crew meals on transcons.
Pairing construction? Unstacking? I guess these are improvements but I do not see how they are large ones. The way I read it the pairings honestly won't change much.
The company can make you go to the doctor if sick? Isn't that one of the reasons DAL voted theirs down? Along with IOE trips (which we also give up).
OH, and let's not forget the big one. BINDING ARBITRATION FOR NEW AIRCRAFT. Huge huge huge giveaway.
3. Pay: *sigh*
Kick in the nuts. When you account for the loss of PTO sell back this area ranges from 1%-10% increase. We will be near the bottom. We have talked at length about how bad the rates are. Where are those amazing work rules that were gong to make up for us dragging the industry down? I'm still waiting.
You are the angriest dude on this forum. Still haven't forgotten that you called us all,"wannabe scabs a few weeks ago."
Why the anger? We see the world differently. That's cool.
Anyway, you do have some valid points, and reasonable people can vote either way on this T/A but your statements seem more dramatic than a lifetime movie.
06-25-2018 | 04:21 PM
#107
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,255
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From: fifi whisperer
so let's talk scope. for the people saying that swa scope is better, and i am sure it is, explain how it is better please. i am trying to understand it. i read the scope section of our ta, and seems really good. i am just trying to understand how it could be better.
and if the only way it could be better is because of how we have codeshares now, then i can see how that is the part that is missing. but if there is something beyond that, i am not seeing it.
are there any other ways in which our ta's scope could be better? thanks for any input.
and if the only way it could be better is because of how we have codeshares now, then i can see how that is the part that is missing. but if there is something beyond that, i am not seeing it.
are there any other ways in which our ta's scope could be better? thanks for any input.
While international codeshare aren't addressed, we don't have to worry about our flying farmed out to regionals. We also don't have to worry about Jetblue becoming a holding company.and the flying farmed out.
06-25-2018 | 04:24 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
so let's talk scope. for the people saying that swa scope is better, and i am sure it is, explain how it is better please. i am trying to understand it. i read the scope section of our ta, and seems really good. i am just trying to understand how it could be better.
and if the only way it could be better is because of how we have codeshares now, then i can see how that is the part that is missing. but if there is something beyond that, i am not seeing it.
are there any other ways in which our ta's scope could be better? thanks for any input.
and if the only way it could be better is because of how we have codeshares now, then i can see how that is the part that is missing. but if there is something beyond that, i am not seeing it.
are there any other ways in which our ta's scope could be better? thanks for any input.
key words in codeshare language, without growing in terms of block hours AND pilots, they cant enter into, amend, OR renew the agreements. They amend these agreements almost annually. this hamstrings them big time for codeshares if we become stagnant. Outside of SWA codeshare, I dont think anyone has anything like this.
06-25-2018 | 04:37 PM
#109
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Joined: May 2013
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Dude. Relax. You are a no vote. Got it.
You are the angriest dude on this forum. Still haven't forgotten that you called us all,"wannabe scabs a few weeks ago."
Why the anger? We see the world differently. That's cool.
Anyway, you do have some valid points, and reasonable people can vote either way on this T/A but your statements seem more dramatic than a lifetime movie.
You are the angriest dude on this forum. Still haven't forgotten that you called us all,"wannabe scabs a few weeks ago."
Why the anger? We see the world differently. That's cool.
Anyway, you do have some valid points, and reasonable people can vote either way on this T/A but your statements seem more dramatic than a lifetime movie.
Im looking over scope, just finished Scheduling. I have some questions obviously, but looks good.
Scope has to be perfect to overcome the appearance of mediocrity.
The pay is actually better, now that Ive looked at pairing construction.
06-25-2018 | 05:04 PM
#110
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
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Why is section 1 selling us out to BINDING ARBITRATION? Arbitration is a horrible thing. It replaces our ability to use the court systems with a kangaroo court of paid off people (remember 3A - we "won" but company paid off arbitrators nullified the determination - we got screwed). NEVER NEVER NEVER agree to arbitration!
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
. Remedies
Any and all disputes concerning alleged violation of Section 1 not resolved by conference
shall be resolved by final and binding arbitration. The Company and the Association
specifically agree to arbitrate any grievance filed by the Association or the Company
alleging a violation of Section 1 (including an announced transaction that has not yet
become effective) on an expedited basis directly before the System Board of Adjustment
sitting with a neutral member, as the arbitration forum. The dispute shall be heard no later
than thirty (30) days following the filing of the dispute with the System Board and
decided no later than sixty (60) days after such filing, unless the parties agree otherwise
in writing. Upon written request the Company will provide, subject to confidentiality
agreements, documents relevant to the issue being arbitrated.
Any and all disputes concerning alleged violation of Section 1 not resolved by conference
shall be resolved by final and binding arbitration. The Company and the Association
specifically agree to arbitrate any grievance filed by the Association or the Company
alleging a violation of Section 1 (including an announced transaction that has not yet
become effective) on an expedited basis directly before the System Board of Adjustment
sitting with a neutral member, as the arbitration forum. The dispute shall be heard no later
than thirty (30) days following the filing of the dispute with the System Board and
decided no later than sixty (60) days after such filing, unless the parties agree otherwise
in writing. Upon written request the Company will provide, subject to confidentiality
agreements, documents relevant to the issue being arbitrated.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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