The TA is finally here
06-25-2018 | 10:56 AM
#82
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Is the company buying you out of your trips for the next month or do they expect you to do all these posts on your time off?
06-25-2018 | 11:09 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
From: I'm Buying
Do you think that will change in a year when we have something different?
Maybe, but in the meantime, no Scope and work rule improvements.
For those who dont know this: SCOPE=JOB. WORK RULES=QOL.
Did I type that loudly enough?
The pay could be higher and I hate B6 for weaseling out of proper profit sharing, but talk to your reps at the roadshows and see if they think that PS or Health care would ever improve greatly even IF we did vote this down, re-elect another NC/MEC and **** and moan for another year.
Vote your wallet and QOL, not your ego or anger.
Easier said than done for us all I admit.
Maybe, but in the meantime, no Scope and work rule improvements.
For those who dont know this: SCOPE=JOB. WORK RULES=QOL.
Did I type that loudly enough?
The pay could be higher and I hate B6 for weaseling out of proper profit sharing, but talk to your reps at the roadshows and see if they think that PS or Health care would ever improve greatly even IF we did vote this down, re-elect another NC/MEC and **** and moan for another year.
Vote your wallet and QOL, not your ego or anger.
Easier said than done for us all I admit.
Our current "PEA" provides no protection or barrier from this dreadfully fluid industry. The current TA information is not perfect, nor do certain sections meet my expectations, mainly Profit Sharing and Health Insurance. Many sections were also simply brought up to the industry average, not the end of the world and I hope to see improvements there during our next negotiation period.
Scope can be very easy to dismiss as "it won't affect us anytime soon" or "we aren't large enough yet" etc. Ask the pilots furloughed after
9-11 how quickly scope crept up on them. Anyone flying or furloughed during that time understands that if ALL legacies held ironclad scope most of us would be at DAL, UAL, or American right now. Also, the over 10,000 pilots furloughed industry-wide would have been back on the property much sooner, negating at least some portion of the devasting affects those years had on their families and careers. Scope is your job, there is a reason SWA holds onto scope so tightly and for the same reasons why we should take a hard look at our own when considering our vote.
Work Rules - Talk with a pilot who has been through furlough, concessions, bankruptcy etc. Ask that pilot what goes first, money or work rules. Companies always go after wages and retirement first when seeking concessions. The work rules are the only thing left that maintain a semblance of QOL. Talk with an American pilot about giving up work rules for pay, if you think we are going to achieve better rates by going back to the table and not giving up anything you may want to talk with some of your more experienced compadres. Work rules can also be the toughest to negotiate due to the company understanding how hard it is to get work rules back; I applaud our NC for this big win in my opinion.
Codified STD, LTD, Sick Bank Cashout at Retirement, 15% DC etc. - Codifying these items provides a tremendous amount of protection for you and your family. Ask any one of the thousands of pilots out on disability. Currently, these items can be taken away from us at the first sign of economic problems, codifying provides a significant amount of protection for you and your loved ones.
Putting SWA level Scope and industry-leading work rules in place today gives us a very solid platform from which to negotiate from tomorrow. Add codifying many of our already solid sections that protect income loss and retirement it is very tough to tell my family, we will be okay don't worry, I am voting No. With that being said I still need to read the final language, attend a roadshow and make sure I am making the best possible decision for my family.
06-25-2018 | 11:18 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,255
Likes: 0
From: fifi whisperer
I don't post on here often and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. With that being said this is how I see it with the current information we have been provided.
Our current "PEA" provides no protection or barrier from this dreadfully fluid industry. The current TA information is not perfect, nor do certain sections meet my expectations, mainly Profit Sharing and Health Insurance. Many sections were also simply brought up to the industry average, not the end of the world and I hope to see improvements there during our next negotiation period.
Scope can be very easy to dismiss as "it won't affect us anytime soon" or "we aren't large enough yet" etc. Ask the pilots furloughed after
9-11 how quickly scope crept up on them. Anyone flying or furloughed during that time understands that if ALL legacies held ironclad scope most of us would be at DAL, UAL, or American right now. Also, the over 10,000 pilots furloughed industry-wide would have been back on the property much sooner, negating at least some portion of the devasting affects those years had on their families and careers. Scope is your job, there is a reason SWA holds onto scope so tightly and for the same reasons why we should take a hard look at our own when considering our vote.
Work Rules - Talk with a pilot who has been through furlough, concessions, bankruptcy etc. Ask that pilot what goes first, money or work rules. Companies always go after wages and retirement first when seeking concessions. The work rules are the only thing left that maintain a semblance of QOL. Talk with an American pilot about giving up work rules for pay, if you think we are going to achieve better rates by going back to the table and not giving up anything you may want to talk with some of your more experienced compadres. Work rules can also be the toughest to negotiate due to the company understanding how hard it is to get work rules back; I applaud our NC for this big win in my opinion.
Codified STD, LTD, Sick Bank Cashout at Retirement, 15% DC etc. - Codifying these items provides a tremendous amount of protection for you and your family. Ask any one of the thousands of pilots out on disability. Currently, these items can be taken away from us at the first sign of economic problems, codifying provides a significant amount of protection for you and your loved ones.
Putting SWA level Scope and industry-leading work rules in place today gives us a very solid platform from which to negotiate from tomorrow. Add codifying many of our already solid sections that protect income loss and retirement it is very tough to tell my family, we will be okay don't worry, I am voting No. With that being said I still need to read the final language, attend a roadshow and make sure I am making the best possible decision for my family.
Our current "PEA" provides no protection or barrier from this dreadfully fluid industry. The current TA information is not perfect, nor do certain sections meet my expectations, mainly Profit Sharing and Health Insurance. Many sections were also simply brought up to the industry average, not the end of the world and I hope to see improvements there during our next negotiation period.
Scope can be very easy to dismiss as "it won't affect us anytime soon" or "we aren't large enough yet" etc. Ask the pilots furloughed after
9-11 how quickly scope crept up on them. Anyone flying or furloughed during that time understands that if ALL legacies held ironclad scope most of us would be at DAL, UAL, or American right now. Also, the over 10,000 pilots furloughed industry-wide would have been back on the property much sooner, negating at least some portion of the devasting affects those years had on their families and careers. Scope is your job, there is a reason SWA holds onto scope so tightly and for the same reasons why we should take a hard look at our own when considering our vote.
Work Rules - Talk with a pilot who has been through furlough, concessions, bankruptcy etc. Ask that pilot what goes first, money or work rules. Companies always go after wages and retirement first when seeking concessions. The work rules are the only thing left that maintain a semblance of QOL. Talk with an American pilot about giving up work rules for pay, if you think we are going to achieve better rates by going back to the table and not giving up anything you may want to talk with some of your more experienced compadres. Work rules can also be the toughest to negotiate due to the company understanding how hard it is to get work rules back; I applaud our NC for this big win in my opinion.
Codified STD, LTD, Sick Bank Cashout at Retirement, 15% DC etc. - Codifying these items provides a tremendous amount of protection for you and your family. Ask any one of the thousands of pilots out on disability. Currently, these items can be taken away from us at the first sign of economic problems, codifying provides a significant amount of protection for you and your loved ones.
Putting SWA level Scope and industry-leading work rules in place today gives us a very solid platform from which to negotiate from tomorrow. Add codifying many of our already solid sections that protect income loss and retirement it is very tough to tell my family, we will be okay don't worry, I am voting No. With that being said I still need to read the final language, attend a roadshow and make sure I am making the best possible decision for my family.
Very well put. Exactly why I'm planning to vote yes (once I read the final language)
06-25-2018 | 11:25 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 26
The TA is finally here
Slightly relieved after reading the posts on here today. Honestly I’m leaning yes. I’m am pretty ****ed at the 2% cola and implementation but not sure if it’s enough to vote no for me.
However reading over at BP for the last 24 hours and I thought there wasn’t any honest evaluation going on. Glad to see a bit of sanity here with rational thought out arguments on the Yes and No sides.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
However reading over at BP for the last 24 hours and I thought there wasn’t any honest evaluation going on. Glad to see a bit of sanity here with rational thought out arguments on the Yes and No sides.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
06-25-2018 | 11:32 AM
#86
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
I don't post on here often and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. With that being said this is how I see it with the current information we have been provided.
Our current "PEA" provides no protection or barrier from this dreadfully fluid industry. The current TA information is not perfect, nor do certain sections meet my expectations, mainly Profit Sharing and Health Insurance. Many sections were also simply brought up to the industry average, not the end of the world and I hope to see improvements there during our next negotiation period.
Scope can be very easy to dismiss as "it won't affect us anytime soon" or "we aren't large enough yet" etc. Ask the pilots furloughed after
9-11 how quickly scope crept up on them. Anyone flying or furloughed during that time understands that if ALL legacies held ironclad scope most of us would be at DAL, UAL, or American right now. Also, the over 10,000 pilots furloughed industry-wide would have been back on the property much sooner, negating at least some portion of the devasting affects those years had on their families and careers. Scope is your job, there is a reason SWA holds onto scope so tightly and for the same reasons why we should take a hard look at our own when considering our vote.
Work Rules - Talk with a pilot who has been through furlough, concessions, bankruptcy etc. Ask that pilot what goes first, money or work rules. Companies always go after wages and retirement first when seeking concessions. The work rules are the only thing left that maintain a semblance of QOL. Talk with an American pilot about giving up work rules for pay, if you think we are going to achieve better rates by going back to the table and not giving up anything you may want to talk with some of your more experienced compadres. Work rules can also be the toughest to negotiate due to the company understanding how hard it is to get work rules back; I applaud our NC for this big win in my opinion.
Codified STD, LTD, Sick Bank Cashout at Retirement, 15% DC etc. - Codifying these items provides a tremendous amount of protection for you and your family. Ask any one of the thousands of pilots out on disability. Currently, these items can be taken away from us at the first sign of economic problems, codifying provides a significant amount of protection for you and your loved ones.
Putting SWA level Scope and industry-leading work rules in place today gives us a very solid platform from which to negotiate from tomorrow. Add codifying many of our already solid sections that protect income loss and retirement it is very tough to tell my family, we will be okay don't worry, I am voting No. With that being said I still need to read the final language, attend a roadshow and make sure I am making the best possible decision for my family.
Our current "PEA" provides no protection or barrier from this dreadfully fluid industry. The current TA information is not perfect, nor do certain sections meet my expectations, mainly Profit Sharing and Health Insurance. Many sections were also simply brought up to the industry average, not the end of the world and I hope to see improvements there during our next negotiation period.
Scope can be very easy to dismiss as "it won't affect us anytime soon" or "we aren't large enough yet" etc. Ask the pilots furloughed after
9-11 how quickly scope crept up on them. Anyone flying or furloughed during that time understands that if ALL legacies held ironclad scope most of us would be at DAL, UAL, or American right now. Also, the over 10,000 pilots furloughed industry-wide would have been back on the property much sooner, negating at least some portion of the devasting affects those years had on their families and careers. Scope is your job, there is a reason SWA holds onto scope so tightly and for the same reasons why we should take a hard look at our own when considering our vote.
Work Rules - Talk with a pilot who has been through furlough, concessions, bankruptcy etc. Ask that pilot what goes first, money or work rules. Companies always go after wages and retirement first when seeking concessions. The work rules are the only thing left that maintain a semblance of QOL. Talk with an American pilot about giving up work rules for pay, if you think we are going to achieve better rates by going back to the table and not giving up anything you may want to talk with some of your more experienced compadres. Work rules can also be the toughest to negotiate due to the company understanding how hard it is to get work rules back; I applaud our NC for this big win in my opinion.
Codified STD, LTD, Sick Bank Cashout at Retirement, 15% DC etc. - Codifying these items provides a tremendous amount of protection for you and your family. Ask any one of the thousands of pilots out on disability. Currently, these items can be taken away from us at the first sign of economic problems, codifying provides a significant amount of protection for you and your loved ones.
Putting SWA level Scope and industry-leading work rules in place today gives us a very solid platform from which to negotiate from tomorrow. Add codifying many of our already solid sections that protect income loss and retirement it is very tough to tell my family, we will be okay don't worry, I am voting No. With that being said I still need to read the final language, attend a roadshow and make sure I am making the best possible decision for my family.
06-25-2018 | 11:51 AM
#88
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
We do however have some good news to report, our business partner was able to finalize coding on our OE pairing removal software and we are pleased to announce that we will be removing 75%, or more, of OE pairings from next months bid package, 3 months earlier than agreed!
Please sign up for a rotation in the T5 vegetable garden for your upcoming *day* off.
06-25-2018 | 11:56 AM
#89
On Reserve
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Stop it, I had Diet Coke coming out of my nose.
06-25-2018 | 11:56 AM
#90
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 18
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