The TA is finally here
07-02-2018 | 04:55 AM
#381
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
07-02-2018 | 04:56 AM
#382
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 12
This TA is an overall pay cut for me. Because we can no longer sell PTO at 150% I am looking at a significant reduction in my overall compensation.
Selling 12 hours PTO adds $3936.24 to my gross pay on the 20th. This adds to 35 hours at $218.68 for a gross pay of $11,590.04 on the 20th of every month.
Considering the new pay rate of $259 my gross pay on the 20th will now be $9065. You can't sell PTO any more, unless you want to sell the 6 hours at straight time, but that will result in 30% of what you used to get, and considering the fact I will need to sell all my PTO before it's radically reduced by this TA I need to start all over at zero. 6 hours per month is pathetic but that's another story.
11590 minus 9065 is a $2525 pay cut on the 20th.
OK so forget about the paycheck on the 20th. All that and more has to be made up on the 8th of every month just to break even. Will it? Let's have a look.
Here's a typical month: a paycheck on the 8th includes 49 hours. A pretty good month for which my total flight pay credit was 84 hours.
49 times $259 is $12,691. Not bad for the paycheck on the 8th, especially since 49 times the old "top of the scale" rate of $218.68 is only $10,715.32.
12961 minus 10715.32 is a $2246 pay increase on the 8th.
Oh but surely there must be something more. Yes I forgot night override. Let's add 20 hours of night override at $13/hr. That brings my paycheck on the 8th up to $2505.68. Great! I still face a $20 a month reduction in pay.
Oh but what about the 5% I no longer have to contribute to my 401(k) to get the company match. The 5% is taken out of profit sharing. Next question.
Oh but what about all those scheduling guarantees. They're not going to be fully implemented until 2020, whereas PTO destruction is effective immediately. Besides, I have yet to fully understand how they are going to make up for such a shortfall.
Oh but what about vacation! I don't take any. Never have. Now I am forced to take vacation. Great! Leave aside the fact I don't need any vacation. So I can pick up trips during vacation. Why do I have to? By definition trips that fall into open time are crap no one else wants, especially me, being senior I have no desire to overnight in POS and other garden spots. Can I just sell VPTO? No. Take your time off and shove it. Besides, again, I'm going to have a hard time making up the $47,234.88 in PTO sold at premium last year just by flying over vacation.
At present, every pilot on property can sell PTO at 150%. Junior, senior, no matter: your PTO accrual was yours to do with as you please, and even if you don't have much in your PTO bank you could sell up to 25% of whatever you have, every December, at 150%.
No more.
The point is this. I did not elect ALPA as my bargaining agent to negotiate pay cuts. I expected my MEC to represent my interests. They caved. At a period of time advantageous to pilot labor, not only did they fail to bring my compensation up anywhere near our peer airlines, they negotiated a concessionary agreement. I can't wait to see what they do during a period of economic hardship.
Recall this MEC. They failed. I can afford to wait another year for a TA that I can support. They weren't elected to negotiate pay cuts.
I cannot defend this deal. If you can, let's hear it.
Selling 12 hours PTO adds $3936.24 to my gross pay on the 20th. This adds to 35 hours at $218.68 for a gross pay of $11,590.04 on the 20th of every month.
Considering the new pay rate of $259 my gross pay on the 20th will now be $9065. You can't sell PTO any more, unless you want to sell the 6 hours at straight time, but that will result in 30% of what you used to get, and considering the fact I will need to sell all my PTO before it's radically reduced by this TA I need to start all over at zero. 6 hours per month is pathetic but that's another story.
11590 minus 9065 is a $2525 pay cut on the 20th.
OK so forget about the paycheck on the 20th. All that and more has to be made up on the 8th of every month just to break even. Will it? Let's have a look.
Here's a typical month: a paycheck on the 8th includes 49 hours. A pretty good month for which my total flight pay credit was 84 hours.
49 times $259 is $12,691. Not bad for the paycheck on the 8th, especially since 49 times the old "top of the scale" rate of $218.68 is only $10,715.32.
12961 minus 10715.32 is a $2246 pay increase on the 8th.
Oh but surely there must be something more. Yes I forgot night override. Let's add 20 hours of night override at $13/hr. That brings my paycheck on the 8th up to $2505.68. Great! I still face a $20 a month reduction in pay.
Oh but what about the 5% I no longer have to contribute to my 401(k) to get the company match. The 5% is taken out of profit sharing. Next question.
Oh but what about all those scheduling guarantees. They're not going to be fully implemented until 2020, whereas PTO destruction is effective immediately. Besides, I have yet to fully understand how they are going to make up for such a shortfall.
Oh but what about vacation! I don't take any. Never have. Now I am forced to take vacation. Great! Leave aside the fact I don't need any vacation. So I can pick up trips during vacation. Why do I have to? By definition trips that fall into open time are crap no one else wants, especially me, being senior I have no desire to overnight in POS and other garden spots. Can I just sell VPTO? No. Take your time off and shove it. Besides, again, I'm going to have a hard time making up the $47,234.88 in PTO sold at premium last year just by flying over vacation.
At present, every pilot on property can sell PTO at 150%. Junior, senior, no matter: your PTO accrual was yours to do with as you please, and even if you don't have much in your PTO bank you could sell up to 25% of whatever you have, every December, at 150%.
No more.
The point is this. I did not elect ALPA as my bargaining agent to negotiate pay cuts. I expected my MEC to represent my interests. They caved. At a period of time advantageous to pilot labor, not only did they fail to bring my compensation up anywhere near our peer airlines, they negotiated a concessionary agreement. I can't wait to see what they do during a period of economic hardship.
Recall this MEC. They failed. I can afford to wait another year for a TA that I can support. They weren't elected to negotiate pay cuts.
I cannot defend this deal. If you can, let's hear it.
07-02-2018 | 04:59 AM
#383
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
Because it makes his case stronger.
I do understand the sell back guys are unhappy, but its gone forever. The survey data probably indicated that it was not an issue for the majority.
Change is difficult- I dont like that UTS gone. I have a problem with anything being implemented beyond 12 months.
The true experts were in that room- not the Yes or No voters.
They must've had some insight as to what was feasible in our first T/A.
Flame away flamers.
I do understand the sell back guys are unhappy, but its gone forever. The survey data probably indicated that it was not an issue for the majority.
Change is difficult- I dont like that UTS gone. I have a problem with anything being implemented beyond 12 months.
The true experts were in that room- not the Yes or No voters.
They must've had some insight as to what was feasible in our first T/A.
Flame away flamers.
07-02-2018 | 05:57 AM
#384
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 516
Likes: 86
Anyone have better info on the roadshows starting today? I'm curious, is the event a full 4 hours long, where a pilot should show up for all 4 hours, or are they simply going to be going over the same info over and over for 4 hours? I'm trying to plan for one of the shows and don't want to show up first thing in the morning, only to be there for a short time and sit around for hours waiting for the start of my trip later in the afternoon.
07-02-2018 | 06:57 AM
#386
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
This TA is an overall pay cut for me. Because we can no longer sell PTO at 150% I am looking at a significant reduction in my overall compensation.
Selling 12 hours PTO adds $3936.24 to my gross pay on the 20th. This adds to 35 hours at $218.68 for a gross pay of $11,590.04 on the 20th of every month.
Considering the new pay rate of $259 my gross pay on the 20th will now be $9065. You can't sell PTO any more, unless you want to sell the 6 hours at straight time, but that will result in 30% of what you used to get, and considering the fact I will need to sell all my PTO before it's radically reduced by this TA I need to start all over at zero. 6 hours per month is pathetic but that's another story.
11590 minus 9065 is a $2525 pay cut on the 20th.
OK so forget about the paycheck on the 20th. All that and more has to be made up on the 8th of every month just to break even. Will it? Let's have a look.
Here's a typical month: a paycheck on the 8th includes 49 hours. A pretty good month for which my total flight pay credit was 84 hours.
49 times $259 is $12,691. Not bad for the paycheck on the 8th, especially since 49 times the old "top of the scale" rate of $218.68 is only $10,715.32.
12961 minus 10715.32 is a $2246 pay increase on the 8th.
Oh but surely there must be something more. Yes I forgot night override. Let's add 20 hours of night override at $13/hr. That brings my paycheck on the 8th up to $2505.68. Great! I still face a $20 a month reduction in pay.
Oh but what about the 5% I no longer have to contribute to my 401(k) to get the company match. The 5% is taken out of profit sharing. Next question.
Oh but what about all those scheduling guarantees. They're not going to be fully implemented until 2020, whereas PTO destruction is effective immediately. Besides, I have yet to fully understand how they are going to make up for such a shortfall.
Oh but what about vacation! I don't take any. Never have. Now I am forced to take vacation. Great! Leave aside the fact I don't need any vacation. So I can pick up trips during vacation. Why do I have to? By definition trips that fall into open time are crap no one else wants, especially me, being senior I have no desire to overnight in POS and other garden spots. Can I just sell VPTO? No. Take your time off and shove it. Besides, again, I'm going to have a hard time making up the $47,234.88 in PTO sold at premium last year just by flying over vacation.
At present, every pilot on property can sell PTO at 150%. Junior, senior, no matter: your PTO accrual was yours to do with as you please, and even if you don't have much in your PTO bank you could sell up to 25% of whatever you have, every December, at 150%.
No more.
The point is this. I did not elect ALPA as my bargaining agent to negotiate pay cuts. I expected my MEC to represent my interests. They caved. At a period of time advantageous to pilot labor, not only did they fail to bring my compensation up anywhere near our peer airlines, they negotiated a concessionary agreement. I can't wait to see what they do during a period of economic hardship.
Recall this MEC. They failed. I can afford to wait another year for a TA that I can support. They weren't elected to negotiate pay cuts.
I cannot defend this deal. If you can, let's hear it.
Selling 12 hours PTO adds $3936.24 to my gross pay on the 20th. This adds to 35 hours at $218.68 for a gross pay of $11,590.04 on the 20th of every month.
Considering the new pay rate of $259 my gross pay on the 20th will now be $9065. You can't sell PTO any more, unless you want to sell the 6 hours at straight time, but that will result in 30% of what you used to get, and considering the fact I will need to sell all my PTO before it's radically reduced by this TA I need to start all over at zero. 6 hours per month is pathetic but that's another story.
11590 minus 9065 is a $2525 pay cut on the 20th.
OK so forget about the paycheck on the 20th. All that and more has to be made up on the 8th of every month just to break even. Will it? Let's have a look.
Here's a typical month: a paycheck on the 8th includes 49 hours. A pretty good month for which my total flight pay credit was 84 hours.
49 times $259 is $12,691. Not bad for the paycheck on the 8th, especially since 49 times the old "top of the scale" rate of $218.68 is only $10,715.32.
12961 minus 10715.32 is a $2246 pay increase on the 8th.
Oh but surely there must be something more. Yes I forgot night override. Let's add 20 hours of night override at $13/hr. That brings my paycheck on the 8th up to $2505.68. Great! I still face a $20 a month reduction in pay.
Oh but what about the 5% I no longer have to contribute to my 401(k) to get the company match. The 5% is taken out of profit sharing. Next question.
Oh but what about all those scheduling guarantees. They're not going to be fully implemented until 2020, whereas PTO destruction is effective immediately. Besides, I have yet to fully understand how they are going to make up for such a shortfall.
Oh but what about vacation! I don't take any. Never have. Now I am forced to take vacation. Great! Leave aside the fact I don't need any vacation. So I can pick up trips during vacation. Why do I have to? By definition trips that fall into open time are crap no one else wants, especially me, being senior I have no desire to overnight in POS and other garden spots. Can I just sell VPTO? No. Take your time off and shove it. Besides, again, I'm going to have a hard time making up the $47,234.88 in PTO sold at premium last year just by flying over vacation.
At present, every pilot on property can sell PTO at 150%. Junior, senior, no matter: your PTO accrual was yours to do with as you please, and even if you don't have much in your PTO bank you could sell up to 25% of whatever you have, every December, at 150%.
No more.
The point is this. I did not elect ALPA as my bargaining agent to negotiate pay cuts. I expected my MEC to represent my interests. They caved. At a period of time advantageous to pilot labor, not only did they fail to bring my compensation up anywhere near our peer airlines, they negotiated a concessionary agreement. I can't wait to see what they do during a period of economic hardship.
Recall this MEC. They failed. I can afford to wait another year for a TA that I can support. They weren't elected to negotiate pay cuts.
I cannot defend this deal. If you can, let's hear it.
07-02-2018 | 07:00 AM
#387
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
07-02-2018 | 07:01 AM
#388
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
07-02-2018 | 07:33 AM
#389
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Selling PTO is the equivalent of working an 18 hour trip that I don't have to work. Every month.
I understand most pilots don't sell PTO at premium. They're leaving that pay on the table. By selling it I turn an 82 hour credit month into a 100 credit hour month. Every month, forever. That's what I have been doing. There is no faster way to increase take home pay than to sell PTO at premium.
It's the reason that if you call in sick, take UTO. Then, take two-thirds of it and sell that much PTO: break even. This applies regardless of your PTO accrual or longevity, as long as you have > 100 hours in your PTO bank.
I encourage everyone with the cognitive ability to use a simple four function calculator to calculate his or her own take home pay, and compare it what it will become after implementation. Do it now. When you actually see your actual monthly pay statements next year, it will be too late. Apparently the MEC doesn't have the ability to do that. Perhaps we have a special dues assessment to provide them with calculators.
I'm disgusted.
I understand most pilots don't sell PTO at premium. They're leaving that pay on the table. By selling it I turn an 82 hour credit month into a 100 credit hour month. Every month, forever. That's what I have been doing. There is no faster way to increase take home pay than to sell PTO at premium.
It's the reason that if you call in sick, take UTO. Then, take two-thirds of it and sell that much PTO: break even. This applies regardless of your PTO accrual or longevity, as long as you have > 100 hours in your PTO bank.
I encourage everyone with the cognitive ability to use a simple four function calculator to calculate his or her own take home pay, and compare it what it will become after implementation. Do it now. When you actually see your actual monthly pay statements next year, it will be too late. Apparently the MEC doesn't have the ability to do that. Perhaps we have a special dues assessment to provide them with calculators.
I'm disgusted.
07-02-2018 | 07:40 AM
#390
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 7
Under the TA, we get a 2% increase in company contribution to retirement. Also, since PTOSB never counted for profit sharing or CSPP, the increased hourly rates will equate to a small bump for both of those, even though the calculations remain unchanged.
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