The TA is finally here
07-08-2018 | 05:32 AM
#531
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Noted! With all my extra cash I’ll make with this TA, I’ll make an extra trip out there during my awesome summer vacation I’ll finally get to compare to creeks cafe here in NC!
07-08-2018 | 05:37 AM
#532
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
A no vote saves B6 over $300,000,000 each year minimum. That 300mil is on pay raises and 401 alone! This is an excellent TA coming from nothing.
07-08-2018 | 05:47 AM
#533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 0
From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
07-08-2018 | 05:53 AM
#534
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 12
07-10-2018 | 06:01 AM
#535
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
It’s actually simple math. Split the pilot group in half, 3600 pilots half FOs and half Cpts. Add in the pay raise, loss of pto, big gain of VPTO, 401k. It’s around 40k/yr FOs and 70k Cpts. 40 x 1800 FOs is 72mil and 70 x 1800 Cpts is 126mil. 126 and 72 is 198mil. Those are simple numbers. If you go and calculate the number of FOs and Cpts by their seniority the number will be higher. The basic math above is 1800 yr 2 FOs and 1800 yr 10 Cpts. The number will likely be higher since there is maybe only 400 yr 1 and 2 FOs. Doesn’t include going to work 4days and getting minimum 20hrs. So yeah 300million is actually pretty accurate! My numbers were very close to several FOs I’ve flown with that had the common sense to look at this TA and do some math 101
07-10-2018 | 06:07 AM
#536
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
It’s actually simple math. Split the pilot group in half, 3600 pilots half FOs and half Cpts. Add in the pay raise, loss of pto, big gain of VPTO, 401k. It’s around 40k/yr FOs and 70k Cpts. 40 x 1800 FOs is 72mil and 70 x 1800 Cpts is 126mil. 126 and 72 is 198mil. Those are simple numbers. If you go and calculate the number of FOs and Cpts by their seniority the number will be higher. The basic math above is 1800 yr 2 FOs and 1800 yr 10 Cpts. The number will likely be higher since there is maybe only 400 yr 1 and 2 FOs. Doesn’t include going to work 4days and getting minimum 20hrs. So yeah 300million is actually pretty accurate! My numbers were very close to several FOs I’ve flown with that had the common sense to look at this TA and do some math 101
Don't worry about the 5 hr calendar day rig, the company will place those into 4-5 day trips with tons of flying on the front to avoid paying for it.
If your math was correct believe me B6ALPA would be shouting it from the rooftops.
07-10-2018 | 06:14 AM
#537
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
It’s actually simple math. Split the pilot group in half, 3600 pilots half FOs and half Cpts. Add in the pay raise, loss of pto, big gain of VPTO, 401k. It’s around 40k/yr FOs and 70k Cpts. 40 x 1800 FOs is 72mil and 70 x 1800 Cpts is 126mil. 126 and 72 is 198mil. Those are simple numbers. If you go and calculate the number of FOs and Cpts by their seniority the number will be higher. The basic math above is 1800 yr 2 FOs and 1800 yr 10 Cpts. The number will likely be higher since there is maybe only 400 yr 1 and 2 FOs. Doesn’t include going to work 4days and getting minimum 20hrs. So yeah 300million is actually pretty accurate! My numbers were very close to several FOs I’ve flown with that had the common sense to look at this TA and do some math 101
07-10-2018 | 06:21 AM
#539
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
I am getting sick of half truths from B6ALPA.
From the recent email.
Q. How long do I have to wait on the phone with Crew Services if I have to call during a Level 2 or 3 IROP?
A. The Association and the Company are aware of excessive hold times with Crew Services. A Pilot cannot be faulted for these waits and the use of the call back function provides record of your attempt to satisfy Postive Contact. This attempt is only required in a Level 2 or 3 IROP (which has increased parameters from today) and Crew Services has failed to complete modifications within the applicable time limits.
What?! Read the TA. It says positive contact MUST BE MADE BY THE PILOT. There an no provisions made for attempts. No time on hold agreement. None of what they say in this LIE of a response.
Q. We have heard that Frontier has cancelled scheduled vacations. How can they do this, and can JetBlue do this under the Tentative Agreement?
A. Rather than admit its own failure to properly staff the airline, attract sufficient pilots to a substandard contract and operate capably, Frontier has cancelled some August scheduled vacations, is changing its sick leave policy and taking several other actions in violation of its agreement. Frontier management, its CEO and investors at Indigo Partners have a long track record of flouting collective bargaining agreements. A noted arbitrator has already ruled that the Company was not bargaining in good faith over interim bankruptcy recovery pay increases. This is more of the same. The Frontier MEC will aggressively protect their contract and, based on precedent, the Association is confident it will be successful in overturning these additional bad faith management decisions.
Today, JetBlue could cancel vacations, and while we would likely dispute it, we do not have a two-party agreement in place to support our defense. Under the Tentative Agreement, in addition to a staffing formula, the Company must comply with 24.M.3, which states that "... the Company will increase the number of Pilots needed to ensure the Base remains staffed sufficiently to account for full time Management/Association Pilots, vacations, sick leave, leave of absences, training, etc.." There is no allowance for it to cancel vacation under the veil of lack of staffing. Cancelling vacations due to "operational necessity" is a standard applied throughout our industry, such as at Delta, Spirit, Alaska, and the bargaining history of this phrase was discussed on the record, is admissible in the Grievance/Arbitration process, and is fully understood by both the Company and the Association as not being applicable to correct for inadequate staffing.
It was actually BOTH Frontier AND Spirit that canceled vacations this summer. Both due to operational necessity as allowed by our TA. It has become the new normal of bottom feeding companies (like ours) to do this and they have faced NO repercussions for it.
From the recent email.
Q. How long do I have to wait on the phone with Crew Services if I have to call during a Level 2 or 3 IROP?
A. The Association and the Company are aware of excessive hold times with Crew Services. A Pilot cannot be faulted for these waits and the use of the call back function provides record of your attempt to satisfy Postive Contact. This attempt is only required in a Level 2 or 3 IROP (which has increased parameters from today) and Crew Services has failed to complete modifications within the applicable time limits.
What?! Read the TA. It says positive contact MUST BE MADE BY THE PILOT. There an no provisions made for attempts. No time on hold agreement. None of what they say in this LIE of a response.
Q. We have heard that Frontier has cancelled scheduled vacations. How can they do this, and can JetBlue do this under the Tentative Agreement?
A. Rather than admit its own failure to properly staff the airline, attract sufficient pilots to a substandard contract and operate capably, Frontier has cancelled some August scheduled vacations, is changing its sick leave policy and taking several other actions in violation of its agreement. Frontier management, its CEO and investors at Indigo Partners have a long track record of flouting collective bargaining agreements. A noted arbitrator has already ruled that the Company was not bargaining in good faith over interim bankruptcy recovery pay increases. This is more of the same. The Frontier MEC will aggressively protect their contract and, based on precedent, the Association is confident it will be successful in overturning these additional bad faith management decisions.
Today, JetBlue could cancel vacations, and while we would likely dispute it, we do not have a two-party agreement in place to support our defense. Under the Tentative Agreement, in addition to a staffing formula, the Company must comply with 24.M.3, which states that "... the Company will increase the number of Pilots needed to ensure the Base remains staffed sufficiently to account for full time Management/Association Pilots, vacations, sick leave, leave of absences, training, etc.." There is no allowance for it to cancel vacation under the veil of lack of staffing. Cancelling vacations due to "operational necessity" is a standard applied throughout our industry, such as at Delta, Spirit, Alaska, and the bargaining history of this phrase was discussed on the record, is admissible in the Grievance/Arbitration process, and is fully understood by both the Company and the Association as not being applicable to correct for inadequate staffing.
It was actually BOTH Frontier AND Spirit that canceled vacations this summer. Both due to operational necessity as allowed by our TA. It has become the new normal of bottom feeding companies (like ours) to do this and they have faced NO repercussions for it.
07-11-2018 | 07:00 AM
#540
Line Holder
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,571
Likes: 86
I am getting sick of half truths from B6ALPA.
From the recent email.
Q. How long do I have to wait on the phone with Crew Services if I have to call during a Level 2 or 3 IROP?
A. The Association and the Company are aware of excessive hold times with Crew Services. A Pilot cannot be faulted for these waits and the use of the call back function provides record of your attempt to satisfy Postive Contact. This attempt is only required in a Level 2 or 3 IROP (which has increased parameters from today) and Crew Services has failed to complete modifications within the applicable time limits.
What?! Read the TA. It says positive contact MUST BE MADE BY THE PILOT. There an no provisions made for attempts. No time on hold agreement. None of what they say in this LIE of a response.
Q. We have heard that Frontier has cancelled scheduled vacations. How can they do this, and can JetBlue do this under the Tentative Agreement?
A. Rather than admit its own failure to properly staff the airline, attract sufficient pilots to a substandard contract and operate capably, Frontier has cancelled some August scheduled vacations, is changing its sick leave policy and taking several other actions in violation of its agreement. Frontier management, its CEO and investors at Indigo Partners have a long track record of flouting collective bargaining agreements. A noted arbitrator has already ruled that the Company was not bargaining in good faith over interim bankruptcy recovery pay increases. This is more of the same. The Frontier MEC will aggressively protect their contract and, based on precedent, the Association is confident it will be successful in overturning these additional bad faith management decisions.
Today, JetBlue could cancel vacations, and while we would likely dispute it, we do not have a two-party agreement in place to support our defense. Under the Tentative Agreement, in addition to a staffing formula, the Company must comply with 24.M.3, which states that "... the Company will increase the number of Pilots needed to ensure the Base remains staffed sufficiently to account for full time Management/Association Pilots, vacations, sick leave, leave of absences, training, etc.." There is no allowance for it to cancel vacation under the veil of lack of staffing. Cancelling vacations due to "operational necessity" is a standard applied throughout our industry, such as at Delta, Spirit, Alaska, and the bargaining history of this phrase was discussed on the record, is admissible in the Grievance/Arbitration process, and is fully understood by both the Company and the Association as not being applicable to correct for inadequate staffing.
It was actually BOTH Frontier AND Spirit that canceled vacations this summer. Both due to operational necessity as allowed by our TA. It has become the new normal of bottom feeding companies (like ours) to do this and they have faced NO repercussions for it.
From the recent email.
Q. How long do I have to wait on the phone with Crew Services if I have to call during a Level 2 or 3 IROP?
A. The Association and the Company are aware of excessive hold times with Crew Services. A Pilot cannot be faulted for these waits and the use of the call back function provides record of your attempt to satisfy Postive Contact. This attempt is only required in a Level 2 or 3 IROP (which has increased parameters from today) and Crew Services has failed to complete modifications within the applicable time limits.
What?! Read the TA. It says positive contact MUST BE MADE BY THE PILOT. There an no provisions made for attempts. No time on hold agreement. None of what they say in this LIE of a response.
Q. We have heard that Frontier has cancelled scheduled vacations. How can they do this, and can JetBlue do this under the Tentative Agreement?
A. Rather than admit its own failure to properly staff the airline, attract sufficient pilots to a substandard contract and operate capably, Frontier has cancelled some August scheduled vacations, is changing its sick leave policy and taking several other actions in violation of its agreement. Frontier management, its CEO and investors at Indigo Partners have a long track record of flouting collective bargaining agreements. A noted arbitrator has already ruled that the Company was not bargaining in good faith over interim bankruptcy recovery pay increases. This is more of the same. The Frontier MEC will aggressively protect their contract and, based on precedent, the Association is confident it will be successful in overturning these additional bad faith management decisions.
Today, JetBlue could cancel vacations, and while we would likely dispute it, we do not have a two-party agreement in place to support our defense. Under the Tentative Agreement, in addition to a staffing formula, the Company must comply with 24.M.3, which states that "... the Company will increase the number of Pilots needed to ensure the Base remains staffed sufficiently to account for full time Management/Association Pilots, vacations, sick leave, leave of absences, training, etc.." There is no allowance for it to cancel vacation under the veil of lack of staffing. Cancelling vacations due to "operational necessity" is a standard applied throughout our industry, such as at Delta, Spirit, Alaska, and the bargaining history of this phrase was discussed on the record, is admissible in the Grievance/Arbitration process, and is fully understood by both the Company and the Association as not being applicable to correct for inadequate staffing.
It was actually BOTH Frontier AND Spirit that canceled vacations this summer. Both due to operational necessity as allowed by our TA. It has become the new normal of bottom feeding companies (like ours) to do this and they have faced NO repercussions for it.
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