You are saying that out of ignorance. I'm not insulting you, it's just that you literally are not aware of a lot of things. Each issue is handled with secrecy so the average pilot who goes to work and isn't in the loop never finds out. Let me assure you that they constantly throw the book at people and often "interpret" their policies in creative ways. There's plenty of people who are on progressive guidance, been suspended for months, or flat out fired. It happens... it happens a lot. An employer who puts food on your table is not a standard by which they can be defined as a "good employer". Ask around... you will hear stories. I know that 99% of the stories are true. (Please don't post them here for the protection of your fellow pilots) Disclosure: I'm not in any trouble with BJ nor have I ever been.


I read somewhere that you might be a vet? If so, you may wish to listen to some of these regional guys - particularly their struggles with management. I'm a vet too... and I was pretty naive at first. However, I've come to learn that they know a lot about labor disputes and the things management will do.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

 

It sounds like you are one of the reasons BJ pilots are so defeated. You talk just like someone who has been conquered. I see you're using the "we're not X airline, so go work for them" argument. Did it occur to you that some people actually want to improve where they currently work at?



Your lack of knowledge of how corporations and business works is troubling because you probably have done significant damage to the cause of making BJ pilots respectable. Do you realize that you have effectively internalized a union-buster's talking points and also the very same things BJ managers say? These people are not on your side - don't do their jobs for them. If they could pay you $5/hr to work 7 days/week, they would! If the current disastrous state of affairs at BJ work for you, great! But don't stop trying to improve things. There is quite a ways to go to make this profession respectable again and your apologist, low-rent, regional mentality isn't helping.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

 

You are always in a dispute. TA 1.0 is an unacceptable compromise and TA 2.0 will still be just a compromise. You will always have to be fighting for pay raises, benefits, and better work rules. What's going to happen in a year or two when we are dead last again in pay? Will you keep defending the status quo? If you don't constantly fight, you will lose the FUTURE ability to fight. You are sabotaging your future. BJ is cutting a lot of corners by understaffing the airline - it's typical bad manager 101 stuff. You jump higher for a few measly dollars while shooting yourself in the face. You have to stop enabling bad behavior from your employer. Even with a contract in place, you should consider the ramifications of doing things for additional pay. What precedent is it setting? How will that precedent hurt us in the future? Remember when Spirit ALPA got in trouble because the company accused them of telling people not to pick up RSAs? Well, they were able to make a pseudo-mathematical argument that a corrupt judge bought off on because they showed historic RSA rates vs. current. So yes.. you're always in a labor dispute.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

 

I’m a 6yr vet and 8 year regional guy. If we’re at the regionals, I’d likely vote no. Since I been at JB, I haven’t seen anything manipulative like I saw at regionals. Like I told Bunker, I just signed up on this site to throw some Yays cuz all i read is a lot of negative. Is this TA perfect no but I honestly believe it is market rate. Is it worded like my contract at my regional which was too confusing to read because it was too lawyer up no but I would like to give this a chance. If they manipulate it, then (while governed by a contract) we stand in unity and demand nothing less during follow up negotiations.

 

You mean you’re always in a dispute. I am not. TA damn nice is very good and worthy of yes. I will not vote No due to paranoia. JB became one of the biggest airlines in 2 decades as compared to a century. That’s business 101, not the small handful that will never be happy.

 

How do you find this TA to be confusing? It's not even written with any legalese at all... anyone with a basic college degree should have no difficulty parsing out and studying every technical fault of the contract. Lots of people on here have identified countless examples. There's NO EXCUSE to let the TA slip by as is.... something worth doing is worth doing right.



And, how is it market rate? It's lower than every single one of your peers? Market rate would be at least the average rate of your peers. At the end of the day, you're still receiving far, far less than your peers. And that's pay alone...



Also, if they do manipulate it (and they will, because they always have), there is no such thing as standing in unity at that point. It will be handled quietly through grievances. 95% of the pilot group will be in absolute ignorant bliss, as you seem to be about the current numbers of people getting screwed over. Don't limit your knowledge to just pilots either... the FA's have *countless* examples of just how evil a company can be... I suppose you didn't hear about how middle managers were paying customers to rat out FAs on surveys? I suppose you never heard of 3A?



There is no guarantee that in 4 yrs the market will be where it is now. This is the best time in history to negotiate a contract. If you can't get a decent contract now, you may never. E.g. SWA made a huge business victory when they hedged jet fuel at the price they did, which helped them tremendously for years to come. Had they not, they probably wouldn't have the success they have now. Likewise, we are at a point where we get come really close to getting a decent contract but we're ****ing it away by marrying the first girl who talks to us. We really need to vote down TA 1.0 and fix all the gross mistakes to get a decent TA 2.0.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

 

Maybe you’ll join bunker n I for that beer among vets! Nuff company crap! Might be good, might be bad. I’m hoping for the best! Cheers man

 

Just read this, i meant our regional TA was like da fu......! This one seems plain English, maybe too plain like you said. I agree on that

 

It's not about being happy or some other emotional rationalization. It's about the sheer numbers (and legal language). The pay is again at the bottom. Your productivity level as a pilot is still the highest in the industry. The benefits are still at the bottom of your peers. The legal language is grossly deficient and dangerous in how open ended it is. These aren't speculations, these are facts.



You're not always in a dispute because you've learned to love your bottom part of the barrel. It's classic Stockholm Syndrome. You have a mental block saying that you will never be Delta, AA, SWA, UA. Imagine if those airlines' pilots had your attitude?



At what point will you actually want improvement?



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

 

I’ll want DL AA or UA when I apply there! Anyway, I’m signing off on company crap! Good luck man!