The TA is finally here
07-05-2018 | 07:00 AM
#471
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 0
From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Management is and has been disconnected from the employee groups for sometime. The middle management structure at jetblue provides an amazing buffer between reality and the jetblue reality. OTP, catering are just some examples of the disconnect. If jetblue allocated the proper resources to running the operation effectively they allocate to other projects we would easily see a ten fold increase in performance. Sadly, the airline chooses to spread itself intentionally thin.
07-05-2018 | 08:10 AM
#472
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
That alone is worth it. There are some horrible loopholes and traps in TA 1.0.
We have a ton of leverage against BJ's position. You know that a few well placed informational pickets will hit them where it hurts the most... their public relations. If people recognize that this isn't a happy-go-lucky place, but rather more like working at Amazon's fulfillment centers, they will definitely lose the war. That's why they conned B6ALPA until shutting down the last information picket.
Ultimately what we get is entirely a function of our resolve. If you want to be defeated, don't expect to get spoils. To the victor goes the spoils, not the other way around. We already know what defeatism yields - horrible conditions for 15 yrs. What we don't know is what happens when we actually fight. We know it has definitely helped Delta, SWA, etc. pilots. The problem is that our guys get exhausted after a few air conditioned meetings and one informational picket. People stand in line for weeks at a time for hockey games, new iPhones, and Star Wars movies, yet they can't even vote correctly to get a better contract.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-05-2018 | 05:26 PM
#473
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
This TA is far better than expected. Some poor areas but no where near compared to the gains. Take out your negativivity and view this rationally! I’m voting YES because i read the whole TA, videos, comparison guide. It’s a large pay increase, scope is huge and 401 and scheduling are top notch.
No.. that is a false assumption and a common false narrative. You *never* have to agree to arbitration.
Arbitration is what companies are doing nowadays in order to trick customers/employees from having a court find the company guilty. It is basically a way to take away your ability to take things to a real court.
It has become standard because people don't care to or know how to read the legal fine print. But, standard doesn't make it something acceptable. It was once standard NOT to have arbitration agreements, but big corporations have consistently screwed customers and employees.
Read this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0568a880b3e26
No one can force you to work somewhere that has binding arbitration. We don't have to agree to a contract that enforces mandatory arbitration. It's only "mandatory" if we agree to it in the first place. This is how the 3A disaster happened in the first place. We need the right to take grievances to court via lawsuit in the event of a violation, not some kangaroo court paid for by BJ.
This TA is far worse than I thought.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
Arbitration is what companies are doing nowadays in order to trick customers/employees from having a court find the company guilty. It is basically a way to take away your ability to take things to a real court.
It has become standard because people don't care to or know how to read the legal fine print. But, standard doesn't make it something acceptable. It was once standard NOT to have arbitration agreements, but big corporations have consistently screwed customers and employees.
Read this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0568a880b3e26
No one can force you to work somewhere that has binding arbitration. We don't have to agree to a contract that enforces mandatory arbitration. It's only "mandatory" if we agree to it in the first place. This is how the 3A disaster happened in the first place. We need the right to take grievances to court via lawsuit in the event of a violation, not some kangaroo court paid for by BJ.
This TA is far worse than I thought.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-05-2018 | 05:35 PM
#474
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
It should pass because it is market rate. Might not be what you wanted but it’s what the group wanted through the survey. NC 12-0 , MEC 7-5. I’m sorry but being protected by a contract good or not, is ten times better than governed by a PEA. Vacation is actually very good. People are being ignorant and cranky and not understanding it whole. If you don’t want to take vacation then don’t, the company will pay you 35 hrs and you work during that week. It’s not being forced to take a week off. Yr 1-9 guys basically get one month free pay! 70hrs!!! Pay not as good as Alaska but their contract actually sucks. Our scope is the best damn thing anyone could want. Unless you want to let Jetblue give our flying away! You come to work 4days, you get paid 4days (20hrs) another big win. Easily 1-2 days extra off for the junior pilots.
07-05-2018 | 05:43 PM
#475
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
LOL this is a funny post keyboard commando. At WAR lmfao! SMH
That alone is worth it. There are some horrible loopholes and traps in TA 1.0.
We have a ton of leverage against BJ's position. You know that a few well placed informational pickets will hit them where it hurts the most... their public relations. If people recognize that this isn't a happy-go-lucky place, but rather more like working at Amazon's fulfillment centers, they will definitely lose the war. That's why they conned B6ALPA until shutting down the last information picket.
Ultimately what we get is entirely a function of our resolve. If you want to be defeated, don't expect to get spoils. To the victor goes the spoils, not the other way around. We already know what defeatism yields - horrible conditions for 15 yrs. What we don't know is what happens when we actually fight. We know it has definitely helped Delta, SWA, etc. pilots. The problem is that our guys get exhausted after a few air conditioned meetings and one informational picket. People stand in line for weeks at a time for hockey games, new iPhones, and Star Wars movies, yet they can't even vote correctly to get a better contract.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
We have a ton of leverage against BJ's position. You know that a few well placed informational pickets will hit them where it hurts the most... their public relations. If people recognize that this isn't a happy-go-lucky place, but rather more like working at Amazon's fulfillment centers, they will definitely lose the war. That's why they conned B6ALPA until shutting down the last information picket.
Ultimately what we get is entirely a function of our resolve. If you want to be defeated, don't expect to get spoils. To the victor goes the spoils, not the other way around. We already know what defeatism yields - horrible conditions for 15 yrs. What we don't know is what happens when we actually fight. We know it has definitely helped Delta, SWA, etc. pilots. The problem is that our guys get exhausted after a few air conditioned meetings and one informational picket. People stand in line for weeks at a time for hockey games, new iPhones, and Star Wars movies, yet they can't even vote correctly to get a better contract.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-05-2018 | 07:15 PM
#476
Covfefe
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Likes: 0
It should pass because it is market rate. Might not be what you wanted but it’s what the group wanted through the survey. NC 12-0 , MEC 7-5. I’m sorry but being protected by a contract good or not, is ten times better than governed by a PEA. Vacation is actually very good. People are being ignorant and cranky and not understanding it whole. If you don’t want to take vacation then don’t, the company will pay you 35 hrs and you work during that week. It’s not being forced to take a week off. Yr 1-9 guys basically get one month free pay! 70hrs!!! Pay not as good as Alaska but their contract actually sucks. Our scope is the best damn thing anyone could want. Unless you want to let Jetblue give our flying away! You come to work 4days, you get paid 4days (20hrs) another big win. Easily 1-2 days extra off for the junior pilots.
07-05-2018 | 07:18 PM
#477
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
This TA is far better than expected. Some poor areas but no where near compared to the gains. Take out your negativivity and view this rationally! I’m voting YES because i read the whole TA, videos, comparison guide. It’s a large pay increase, scope is huge and 401 and scheduling are top notch.
This is an extremely open ended contract. Virtually every page leaves it wide open for BJ interpretation. Did you also notice things like the Dependability Policy are now hard coded into the contract by referencing it externally? In other words, they hijacked the contract by saying you must follow their Dependability Policy, yet they can rewrite or apply the DP however and whenever they feel like it. I lawyered this document and it's not that great. It needs to be rewritten to handle every case, not just one scenario. In other words, every paragraph needs an IF X then Y, ELSE Z.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-05-2018 | 07:31 PM
#478
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Didn’t mean entire NC, meant at first from NC then went 7-5. You want to be a Debbie downer cool but quit acting like this is a crap deal. It is far from it and much better than anything we have. Next negotiation we can fix problems or issues that arise. Spending the next 12-18 months back in negotiations tho, stupid. Unless your like others that vote no based primarily on hating JB or they want to be voted into the NC when we cast them out for no confidence
07-05-2018 | 07:34 PM
#479
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
The PEA and FSM are not written special like your pleasing. I believe our company will do the right thing. If the try and manipulate it, then we as a group can grieve it and at next negotiations, once were at least governed by a contract, we have it written better. I will not vote no because I’m unable to get to work and I’m worried about my commute.
This is an extremely open ended contract. Virtually every page leaves it wide open for BJ interpretation. Did you also notice things like the Dependability Policy are now hard coded into the contract by referencing it externally? In other words, they hijacked the contract by saying you must follow their Dependability Policy, yet they can rewrite or apply the DP however and whenever they feel like it. I lawyered this document and it's not that great. It needs to be rewritten to handle every case, not just one scenario. In other words, every paragraph needs an IF X then Y, ELSE Z.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-05-2018 | 07:37 PM
#480
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
And i know all three, I’ve met them and talked to them and trust them. They worked with an arbitrator and believe this is market rate and so do I! If you hate the company so much to want a War and think they plot behind enemy lines, I heard Mesa is hiring!
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