pilotpayne

I have actually been very impressed by you. We went head to head on many things and probably still would but you are very fair in your analysis, along with others on here.

But it is funny we get to the point where we have a contract and now guys are like well the company will just ignore it.

So we will never have a union, nobody will show up to the rally, the company will never agree to a contract, the contract is worthless. So much fun.

Bluedriver

You didn't teach me anything clown. How much investment and risk to BlueJet?

If you really think that collecting the full dollar is the ultimate deciding factor, then why do we codeshare with Hawaiian out of LGB? You learned in yesterday's class that JB CAN fly to Hawaii, but has chosen not to. How can that be true, don't we want the whole dollar clown?

Why did Delta maintain such a large domestic codeshare with Alaska for so many years until Alaska refused to stop codesharing with AA at the same time, which ultimately made Delta decide to go after Seattle on there own? Didn't Delta want the whole dollar all those years?

You have literally scientifically demonstrated yourself to have less understanding on this subject than a BlueJet On-time Performance Program Engineer has on running a smooth operation.

Bozo the pilot

Hey- did you finally learn the difference between Fee for departure and codesharing?
You started off the debate yesterday trying to pick apart the Scope section, when what you really wanted to, but did not communicate, was complain about Hayes' indecision about TransAtlantic/Pacific.
Im with you, Id like to grow overseas, but can we not argue about corporate decision making and just get back to the T/A.
Any section you want BD. And when this passes, we can discuss the evils of corporate America.
Fair enough? I want to get back to the old Bozo-Bdriver thing.
Seriously, Peace BD.

Bozo the pilot

Thanks, I was pi$$ed at B6 for years and still am.
But now that a TA is out that directly affects our life, the emotions have to calm so that we can think clearly.
The negative guys here that I am currently addressing, have a few valid concerns, but betray themselves when they lash out at anyone who states the obvious benefits of the document in full.
I truly believe that these fellow pilots, wanted a full out war with B6 and Ive been told by a few that "If Jetblue agreed to this, then it sucks"
That's insane logic.
To your point, if that's believed, then whats the point of this process anyway?
I want to hear from the measured "No voter" and I will attempt to stay realistic and teachable.

Bluedriver

You have me EXTREMELY confused with someone else if you think I don't understand the difference between FFD and codesharing. Basically everything you just said is either completely false or you can't follow a complex debate or you are intentionally misdirecting.

Either way, I think you and I have reached an impasse. I'm going to engage others as I see fit and you should add intelligent context, when able.

This whole "BD doesn't understand the topic of debate" is way, way beneath you.

I could try and give you the benefit of the doubt and understand that maybe some of the subtle context and background knowledge of the debate are simply escaping you, but I don't think that is the case. As evidenced by you continuing to avoid answering the hard questions.

Bozo the pilot

Im not avoiding anything BD. The discussion was about the good and bad of Codesharing. You seemed to want it banned from existence and I simply explained that it was necessary and when checked, leads to our growth (Btw, you never did address the JAX-HNL point) So point a finger your way as well. You then went off on tangents about Hayes' decision making.
But lets continue the debate, and keep it on the TA and not some conjecture about B6s future plans.
We have no control over the direction they take, all we can do is get the best deal available. Is this it?
No one is sure.

Bluedriver

Another misdirect. We are discussing the adequacy of the scope protections in this TA as it relates to codesharing. We are on point. You said, our concerns regarding domestic and international codeshare protections, specifically the lack of those protections, is invalid because BlueJet will want the "whole dollar" and not "pennies on the dollar".

So, my questions, just two posts ago:

If we need not worry about domestic codesharing because we would want the "whole dollar", then why are we codesharing with Hawaiian airlines out of our hub in Long Beach when we have an aircraft capable of serving the route and CAN serve the route? Do we not want the "whole dollar"?

Also, why did Delta maintain an extensive domestic codeshare with Alaska for YEARS right up unitl Alaska refused to drop it's other large domestic codeshare with American? When Alaska refused Delta's ultimatum, Delta decided to build it's own Seattle hub. Didn't Delta want the "whole dollar" all those years?

Bozo the pilot

Ive responded to the first question already BD. Read it.
As for the Delta situation, you'd have to ask their management at the time- I wasnt in that office.
Now address, what specifically in the Scope section of the TA, that you feel leaves us vulnerable.
And btw, tell me, if you know why, limited codesharing is a positive thing. You are guilty of what you have accused me of- Dodging.
Jax-Hnl- why is this symbiotic?
I gotta go, but Ill wait for those answers Bd.
As always- hope you're well.

Bluedriver

Wait, you said the Airline would want the "whole dollar", so you need to explain to me why Delta didn't want the "whole dollar".

I've already explained the other Corp philosophy on the subject.

As for how codesharing CAN be positive, I guess this is all just a big misunderstanding on your part because I made that very clear yesterday:

" Bluedriver , Yesterday 12:47 PM
Quote:

Codesharing has at least two aspects. On the one hand codesharing customers into our network from a destination we *cannot* reach does improve load factor on our existing network and lead to new cities (DTW). Never disputed that. Didn't engage you on that point, intentionally. Doesn't mean I don't understand it Bozo.

The other side of the coin is codesharing to destinations we CAN reach (HNL & KEF *NOW* and soon to be Gatwick, Charles de Gaulle, Shannon, Dublin, Amsterdam, Brussels, Lisbon, Madrid etc...) but choose not to because of the investment and risk. We have instead elected to codeshare and take our "pennies on the dollar" up until now because it's low risk revenue.

Will that change, maybe. Been hearing Europe just a few years away since I got here.

Now I suggest you not insult my understanding of this industry again, as it's idiotic and should be beneath your debate skills."

End of quote.

PasserOGas

I am not saying the company would ignore it.

I am saying WE would ignore it. Much like a "no furlough" clause, if the survival of the company was in peril, or if it was in no position to buy 777's to fly to Dubai, B6ALPA and the Pilots of Jetblue, would grant immediate relief.

It is a nonsensical provision.

Especially when you consider that the complete giveaway of all codesharing rests on it.