Why I'm voting Yes
07-13-2018 | 06:17 AM
#161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 45
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
For you, it's an improvement. I lose money and days off with this TA. It's concessionary. Period, dot.
I'm glad there were many fixes, particularly with some of the pairing constructions and daily credit which helps the junior guys more. I never expected a pay raise out of this, mainly because of the PTOSB. I was fine with that. What I didn't expect was to take a substantial pay cut and have to work 2-3 more days a month.
Add on top of that vacation alllotment, no UTS, PS cliff, bottom of peer pay rates, COLA, should I go on? This is a bottom of the barrel TA which will keep us trailing our peers for the next 5-7 years. And when we got to mediation next time, the mediator is going to say, "Hey, you guys accepted bottom last time, guess where I expect you to accept this time?" Precedence will have been set.
My only hope to finish my career at a real airline with a pilot group that fights for its worth is to hope like hell we merge.
I'm glad there were many fixes, particularly with some of the pairing constructions and daily credit which helps the junior guys more. I never expected a pay raise out of this, mainly because of the PTOSB. I was fine with that. What I didn't expect was to take a substantial pay cut and have to work 2-3 more days a month.
Add on top of that vacation alllotment, no UTS, PS cliff, bottom of peer pay rates, COLA, should I go on? This is a bottom of the barrel TA which will keep us trailing our peers for the next 5-7 years. And when we got to mediation next time, the mediator is going to say, "Hey, you guys accepted bottom last time, guess where I expect you to accept this time?" Precedence will have been set.
My only hope to finish my career at a real airline with a pilot group that fights for its worth is to hope like hell we merge.
Yeah a merger (maybe that CBA language is important) that will give us a pilot group that fights (EVEN MORE AMONGST ITSELF)
07-13-2018 | 07:14 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 45
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
And the language in our current TA would be part of getting that. But who needs merger language when we have PEAs.
I also think there is stuff in this TA that you can be proud of. This we suck stuff and we can’t be proud is getting old. I’m pretty sure you did a bunch of ALPA stuff there is no reason to walk around like eeyore, but it is fun for many here a ”bluejet”
I also think there is stuff in this TA that you can be proud of. This we suck stuff and we can’t be proud is getting old. I’m pretty sure you did a bunch of ALPA stuff there is no reason to walk around like eeyore, but it is fun for many here a ”bluejet”
07-13-2018 | 07:23 AM
#164
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 24
And the language in our current TA would be part of getting that. But who needs merger language when we have PEAs.
I also think there is stuff in this TA that you can be proud of. This we suck stuff and we can’t be proud is getting old. I’m pretty sure you did a bunch of ALPA stuff there is no reason to walk around like eeyore, but it is fun for many here a ”bluejet”
I also think there is stuff in this TA that you can be proud of. This we suck stuff and we can’t be proud is getting old. I’m pretty sure you did a bunch of ALPA stuff there is no reason to walk around like eeyore, but it is fun for many here a ”bluejet”
We have some merger protection in our PEA right now, especially if it's with another ALPA carrier, but I guess it's better to be scared of the boogie man and hurry up and sign a sub par TA just in case we get bought/oil hits $150 a barrel/economy tanks/etc etc.
There's nothing in this TA that I can look at and say that affects me in a positive way either $, QOL, or just peace of mind. I'd rather live under the PEA for another 1 or 2 than accept this POS for the next 5-7.
07-13-2018 | 09:03 AM
#165
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 4
From: CA
Throw the word "scared' around all you like, I get it...It's language you're using for a reason, trying to persuade. I'd rather be called informed and scared than woefully optimistic.
07-13-2018 | 10:20 AM
#166
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 24
I'm not trying to persuade anyone. Calling a spade a spade. This TA is going to pass, I have zero doubts about that so I'm not wasting my time counting votes or changing minds. Informed does not equal smart or translate into intelligent decisions.
07-13-2018 | 10:21 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
We have some merger protection in our PEA right now, especially if it's with another ALPA carrier, but I guess it's better to be scared of the boogie man and hurry up and sign a sub par TA just in case we get bought/oil hits $150 a barrel/economy tanks/etc etc.
There's nothing in this TA that I can look at and say that affects me in a positive way either $, QOL, or just peace of mind. I'd rather live under the PEA for another 1 or 2 than accept this POS for the next 5-7.
There's nothing in this TA that I can look at and say that affects me in a positive way either $, QOL, or just peace of mind. I'd rather live under the PEA for another 1 or 2 than accept this POS for the next 5-7.
07-13-2018 | 10:27 AM
#168
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 24
Rvr......I don't type that paragraph lightly. I have said before that there are a lot of good things in this TA. A lot of them. 90% are for middle to lower seniority guys. With my position, in my seat with my background, there's literally nothing that I find worthy of voting for this over what we operate under now. If you want to know why, I'll gladly outline it in a PM, but it's really that bad--for me and my situation.
07-13-2018 | 10:47 AM
#169
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 61
We have some merger protection in our PEA right now, especially if it's with another ALPA carrier, but I guess it's better to be scared of the boogie man and hurry up and sign a sub par TA just in case we get bought/oil hits $150 a barrel/economy tanks/etc etc.
There's nothing in this TA that I can look at and say that affects me in a positive way either $, QOL, or just peace of mind. I'd rather live under the PEA for another 1 or 2 than accept this POS for the next 5-7.
There's nothing in this TA that I can look at and say that affects me in a positive way either $, QOL, or just peace of mind. I'd rather live under the PEA for another 1 or 2 than accept this POS for the next 5-7.
Should we be purchased, acquired, merged or however you want to term it Jetblue ensured that Section 15 of the PEA would only cover you in the Bluethisfere fantasy land.
The TA scope is what we've always needed. Please do not confuse the two.
07-13-2018 | 10:51 AM
#170
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 24
No we do not. The legal interpretation from ALPA in the beginning made it clear we could not force another carrier to abide by a Pilot Employment Agreement. You are referring to the provisions under McKaskill/Bond.
Should we be purchased, acquired, merged or however you want to term it Jetblue ensured that Section 15 of the PEA would only cover you in the Bluethisfere fantasy land.
The TA scope is what we've always needed. Please do not confuse the two.
Should we be purchased, acquired, merged or however you want to term it Jetblue ensured that Section 15 of the PEA would only cover you in the Bluethisfere fantasy land.
The TA scope is what we've always needed. Please do not confuse the two.
I'm not confusing the two. Is the language in the TA more definitive? Yes. Are we without any merger protection right now? No.
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