jetBlue rape lawsuit, filed 3/18/19
03-23-2019, 07:05 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 991
Originally Posted by Slick111
Ahhh, yes. ALPA "unity". It warms the heart.
This has nothing to do with ALPA and everything to do with busdriver's position being ridiculous. I suspect he's out at a "Feel the Bern" rally right now wearing a vagina hat typing as many #MeToo hashtags he can fit in his twitter feed.
I have 2 boys and 2 girls and I'm scared sh1tless for all of them, for the exact opposite reasons, when it comes to dealing with sexual assault and the allegations that come along with it.
03-23-2019, 09:05 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 166
I completely understand the fear of a false accusation of sexual assault. When we have a teen come over to watch our kids, I am careful to never be alone with her without my wife. My wife drives her home. This is just to be careful, and I can totally see and empathize with the damage a false accusation can have.
That being said, and this is impossible to measure, but if we had a crystal ball that would give us a definitive answer, and had to put our life savings on the number of legitimate sexual assaults that never get reported vs. the number of completely fabricated accusations, I would have to put my money on at least 10 to 1, maybe 20 to 1. This is based on just being a dude, knowing dudes, seeing how some things went down in high school, college, and the military, all of my life experience as a man and living/working in "manly" environments.
Absolutely some men have been falsely accused, and if it is proven to be so, the accuser should have the full weight of the law come down on them. But I still feel it is orders of magnitude tougher to be a chick with some of the douchebags rolling around out there than it is to be a man. I generally don't walk to my car in a dark parking lot fearing violence. About half the population does. Maybe not in stark terror, but it's in the back of their minds.
I wish if we just thought hard enough about it we could come up with a perfect criminal justice system that completely shields rape accusers while also protecting people from false accusations, but unfortunately it doesn't exist. For decades, God help a woman that accused someone of raping her, especially if it wasn't some random thug but an otherwise upstanding member of society. We're talking about a woman who was legitimately raped whose life would be destroyed. Especially when you have a decent portion of society like the dude a couple of pages back who have a near-certain idea of what how a "real" rape victim "should" act. If we have to bias the system toward one or the other, I'll side with the woman every time (not in assuming the dude is guilty until he is given his constitutional due process, but in providing certain protections to victims like we have now).
That being said, and this is impossible to measure, but if we had a crystal ball that would give us a definitive answer, and had to put our life savings on the number of legitimate sexual assaults that never get reported vs. the number of completely fabricated accusations, I would have to put my money on at least 10 to 1, maybe 20 to 1. This is based on just being a dude, knowing dudes, seeing how some things went down in high school, college, and the military, all of my life experience as a man and living/working in "manly" environments.
Absolutely some men have been falsely accused, and if it is proven to be so, the accuser should have the full weight of the law come down on them. But I still feel it is orders of magnitude tougher to be a chick with some of the douchebags rolling around out there than it is to be a man. I generally don't walk to my car in a dark parking lot fearing violence. About half the population does. Maybe not in stark terror, but it's in the back of their minds.
I wish if we just thought hard enough about it we could come up with a perfect criminal justice system that completely shields rape accusers while also protecting people from false accusations, but unfortunately it doesn't exist. For decades, God help a woman that accused someone of raping her, especially if it wasn't some random thug but an otherwise upstanding member of society. We're talking about a woman who was legitimately raped whose life would be destroyed. Especially when you have a decent portion of society like the dude a couple of pages back who have a near-certain idea of what how a "real" rape victim "should" act. If we have to bias the system toward one or the other, I'll side with the woman every time (not in assuming the dude is guilty until he is given his constitutional due process, but in providing certain protections to victims like we have now).
Last edited by Brillo; 03-23-2019 at 09:18 AM.
03-23-2019, 09:07 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by BunkerF16
This has nothing to do with ALPA and everything to do with busdriver's position being ridiculous. I suspect he's out at a "Feel the Bern" rally right now wearing a vagina hat typing as many #MeToo hashtags he can fit in his twitter feed
03-23-2019, 09:34 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: Not an RJ driver anymore
Posts: 1,033
Originally Posted by Std Deviation
CA I flew with on a long SAN layover - We HAVE to go to the oldest bar in San Diego! I’ll buy the first pitcher. The first? How much you planning on binge drinking? Thanks but there’s a boxing gym I like to hit up when I here. I’m scheduled for a class at 6am. You’re welcome to come... funny no one ever takes me up on that.
When I’m in MSY I usually take a class at the New Orleans school of cooking - open Bloody Mary bar and free flowing keg of Abita by the way.
Sometimes I go out and sometimes I don’t. And now as CA I don’t agree with the expectation that I’m supposed to be director of the fun committee. Each situation is unique. I see nothing wrong with hanging with the crew as long as you quit drinking before you quit thinking.
When I’m in MSY I usually take a class at the New Orleans school of cooking - open Bloody Mary bar and free flowing keg of Abita by the way.
Sometimes I go out and sometimes I don’t. And now as CA I don’t agree with the expectation that I’m supposed to be director of the fun committee. Each situation is unique. I see nothing wrong with hanging with the crew as long as you quit drinking before you quit thinking.
03-23-2019, 09:42 AM
#95
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Originally Posted by Brillo
I completely understand the fear of a false accusation of sexual assault. When we have a teen come over to watch our kids, I am careful to never be alone with her without my wife. My wife drives her home. This is just to be careful, and I can totally see and empathize with the damage a false accusation can have.
That being said, and this is impossible to measure, but if we had a crystal ball that would give us a definitive answer, and had to put our life savings on the number of legitimate sexual assaults that never get reported vs. the number of completely fabricated accusations, I would have to put my money on at least 10 to 1, maybe 20 to 1. This is based on just being a dude, knowing dudes, seeing how some things went down in high school, college, and the military, all of my life experience as a man and living/working in "manly" environments.
Absolutely some men have been falsely accused, and if it is proven to be so, the accuser should have the full weight of the law come down on them. But I still feel it is orders of magnitude tougher to be a chick with some of the douchebags rolling around out there than it is to be a man. I generally don't walk to my car in a dark parking lot fearing violence. About half the population does. Maybe not in stark terror, but it's in the back of their minds.
I wish if we just thought hard enough about it we could come up with a perfect criminal justice system that completely shields rape accusers while also protecting people from false accusations, but unfortunately it doesn't exist. For decades, God help a woman that accused someone of raping her, especially if it wasn't some random thug but an otherwise upstanding member of society. We're talking about a woman who was legitimately raped whose life would be destroyed. Especially when you have a decent portion of society like the dude a couple of pages back who have a near-certain idea of what how a "real" rape victim "should" act. If we have to bias the system toward one or the other, I'll side with the woman every time (not in assuming the dude is guilty until he is given his constitutional due process, but in providing certain protections to victims like we have now).
That being said, and this is impossible to measure, but if we had a crystal ball that would give us a definitive answer, and had to put our life savings on the number of legitimate sexual assaults that never get reported vs. the number of completely fabricated accusations, I would have to put my money on at least 10 to 1, maybe 20 to 1. This is based on just being a dude, knowing dudes, seeing how some things went down in high school, college, and the military, all of my life experience as a man and living/working in "manly" environments.
Absolutely some men have been falsely accused, and if it is proven to be so, the accuser should have the full weight of the law come down on them. But I still feel it is orders of magnitude tougher to be a chick with some of the douchebags rolling around out there than it is to be a man. I generally don't walk to my car in a dark parking lot fearing violence. About half the population does. Maybe not in stark terror, but it's in the back of their minds.
I wish if we just thought hard enough about it we could come up with a perfect criminal justice system that completely shields rape accusers while also protecting people from false accusations, but unfortunately it doesn't exist. For decades, God help a woman that accused someone of raping her, especially if it wasn't some random thug but an otherwise upstanding member of society. We're talking about a woman who was legitimately raped whose life would be destroyed. Especially when you have a decent portion of society like the dude a couple of pages back who have a near-certain idea of what how a "real" rape victim "should" act. If we have to bias the system toward one or the other, I'll side with the woman every time (not in assuming the dude is guilty until he is given his constitutional due process, but in providing certain protections to victims like we have now).
03-23-2019, 09:54 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
But it has already been investigated and found to be a lie hence why one of the fa got fired.
03-23-2019, 09:57 AM
#97
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Originally Posted by Brillo
Just a comment since this thread started getting a bit more about sexual assault in general. Not specific to this case.
03-23-2019, 10:07 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 964
Seems a little odd to me that it allegedly happened in PR of all places. Not to knock the FAs but I think someplace like Ohio or Omaha in the dead of winter would be more believable.
Last edited by SSlow; 03-23-2019 at 10:34 AM.
03-23-2019, 10:21 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by SSlow
Seems a little odd to me that it happened in PR of all places. Not to knock the FAs but I think someplace like Ohio or Omaha in the dead of winter would be more believable.
Honestly, I have a hard time believing what sensationalistic details are reported in the news. And reports like on this forum, that one of the flight attendants was fired. How can we substantiate that any of this is true? I'll leave it to the courts, which are hopefully unbiased and fair. I suspect that in a he said/she said (and the other she said) situation, that without prior accusations and/or physical evidence, the accused will win the lawsuit. And if he feels that he was unjustly accused, I hope he files a counter suit.
03-23-2019, 11:27 AM
#100
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
From the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington Post (sarcasm)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.4d2e018b67e7
"Both women reported the alleged assaults and sex and gender discrimination (discrimination??) to JetBlue at their corporate headquarters in New York, but despite the airline “purporting to investigate the matter,” the two pilots were not disciplined, the suit said."
My pimply-faced pre-teen immediately picked up these insulting assumptions. No chance the investigation, conducted by a publicly-traded, politically sensitive, risk-averse, $4.88B Corporation MAY have actually found the charges to be without merit and baseless? WaPo appears to find it more likely the good ol' boy network of back-slapping stick jockeys exerted their influence on the HR team and it's investigators. Hilarious if not so pathetic.
It gets better:
"This is not the first time an airline has been accused of not doing enough when an employee is accused of sexual misconduct. In March 2018, an Alaska Airlines pilot sued her employer after a fellow captain allegedly drugged and raped her, The Washington Post reported. Though the pilot also told officials about the incident (Engelian said it was consensual), the captain still continued working for the airline."
WaPo then goes on to conveniently omit CYA motives and facts regarding the accuser (Probation FO Betty Pina) and why she was fired. Altering the facts to fit the narrative. Go figure. #MeToo?
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...e-rape-claims/
“....Pina’s false claims defamed Engelien, invaded his privacy, decimated his life and career, and caused him severe distress,” it says.
The lawsuit also alleges Pina, then a probationary employee, only made up the rape claims to avoid being fired. The suit also contends Pina later was involved in a similar incident during a layover in May, during which she allegedly drank too much, blacked out, then later blamed others.
She stopped working for Alaska Airlines in July and now flies for another airline based in Hawaii
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.4d2e018b67e7
"Both women reported the alleged assaults and sex and gender discrimination (discrimination??) to JetBlue at their corporate headquarters in New York, but despite the airline “purporting to investigate the matter,” the two pilots were not disciplined, the suit said."
My pimply-faced pre-teen immediately picked up these insulting assumptions. No chance the investigation, conducted by a publicly-traded, politically sensitive, risk-averse, $4.88B Corporation MAY have actually found the charges to be without merit and baseless? WaPo appears to find it more likely the good ol' boy network of back-slapping stick jockeys exerted their influence on the HR team and it's investigators. Hilarious if not so pathetic.
It gets better:
"This is not the first time an airline has been accused of not doing enough when an employee is accused of sexual misconduct. In March 2018, an Alaska Airlines pilot sued her employer after a fellow captain allegedly drugged and raped her, The Washington Post reported. Though the pilot also told officials about the incident (Engelian said it was consensual), the captain still continued working for the airline."
WaPo then goes on to conveniently omit CYA motives and facts regarding the accuser (Probation FO Betty Pina) and why she was fired. Altering the facts to fit the narrative. Go figure. #MeToo?
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...e-rape-claims/
“....Pina’s false claims defamed Engelien, invaded his privacy, decimated his life and career, and caused him severe distress,” it says.
The lawsuit also alleges Pina, then a probationary employee, only made up the rape claims to avoid being fired. The suit also contends Pina later was involved in a similar incident during a layover in May, during which she allegedly drank too much, blacked out, then later blamed others.
She stopped working for Alaska Airlines in July and now flies for another airline based in Hawaii
Last edited by dawgdriver; 03-23-2019 at 11:46 AM.
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