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Old 02-23-2017, 07:53 AM
  #2761  
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Originally Posted by atrdriver View Post
Oh don't mistake my post for optimism. I was just saying they aren't deadlocked yet. The sections under negotiation take longer to TA by their very nature.

I don't personally have an ETA, but I'm prepping my logbook and apps now in case it isn't looking good by mid year. I want to beat the mad rush of an exodus from jetblue if they don't offer industry standard.
Me too- I consider it packing a parachute. Btw, an small exodus is already underway- B6 management just doesn't know it yet.
Morale is dropping and except for guys who live in base or those who are too old or senior, any half-wit would leave in a minute. If youre under 50 and less than 50%, DO THE MATH & get out now.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:03 AM
  #2762  
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Budget for 2018 will be finalized by Q3. If there is no TA by then, the pilots should be very angry.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:13 AM
  #2763  
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Originally Posted by aldonite7667 View Post
Budget for 2018 will be finalized by Q3. If there is no TA by then, the pilots should be very angry.
So you expect it before 2018? Really hope youre right.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:23 AM
  #2764  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
So you expect it before 2018? Really hope youre right.
If its not done by then. I'd be very surprised.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:48 AM
  #2765  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
So whats your guess Bunker? 12-18months? Do you actually see a T/A without picketing and a strike vote? Why would B6 want to pay us more when they have zero incentive?
Im glad some here have faith- Im not so optimistic. Hope Im wrong.

Bozo....your guess is as good as mine. My point is that the tone of the messages from the NC and MEC while still cautious, have been slightly more optimistic recently.

Do I think we're going to picket at some point? Yes. I think we'll info picket before we get a contract. Do I think we'll have to strike? No.

The one thing I tell people all the time is that we don't really work for an airline...we work for a PR firm that flies aircraft and the thing JB hates the most is bad publicity. There would be nothing they'd want less than to see than a bunch of pilots walking around in circles with sticks in their hands in front of JFK/LGA/BOS/FLL and have it broadcast on local TV and plastered over the newspapers.....

I believe JB will provide a market rate contract. It may take a bunch of teeth pulling, but it'll happen......the pool of candidates they can choose from that will actually want to end up staying and not just use JB as a holding point for the majors is growing dangerously low. It's basic supply and demand and they realize that...even if they won't admit it publicly.

I'm not pessimistic or optimistic at this point. More realistic. Do I think we'll have something to vote on by the end of the year? Maybe. More likely it'll be next year sometime....
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:15 AM
  #2766  
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Originally Posted by BunkerF16 View Post
Bozo....your guess is as good as mine. My point is that the tone of the messages from the NC and MEC while still cautious, have been slightly more optimistic recently.

Do I think we're going to picket at some point? Yes. I think we'll info picket before we get a contract. Do I think we'll have to strike? No.

The one thing I tell people all the time is that we don't really work for an airline...we work for a PR firm that flies aircraft and the thing JB hates the most is bad publicity. There would be nothing they'd want less than to see than a bunch of pilots walking around in circles with sticks in their hands in front of JFK/LGA/BOS/FLL and have it broadcast on local TV and plastered over the newspapers.....

I believe JB will provide a market rate contract. It may take a bunch of teeth pulling, but it'll happen......the pool of candidates they can choose from that will actually want to end up staying and not just use JB as a holding point for the majors is growing dangerously low. It's basic supply and demand and they realize that...even if they won't admit it publicly.

I'm not pessimistic or optimistic at this point. More realistic. Do I think we'll have something to vote on by the end of the year? Maybe. More likely it'll be next year sometime....
I can buy this, but I do see a strike vote and public embarrassment to push management in the right direction. My guess is a T/A no sooner than Fall 2018- The pace is too slow and we've reached the tough issues- It wont get faster and where do you see more optimism from the MEC- I see many meetings but very few agreements reached. I do appreciate your pov.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:48 AM
  #2767  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
I can buy this, but I do see a strike vote and public embarrassment to push management in the right direction. My guess is a T/A no sooner than Fall 2018- The pace is too slow and we've reached the tough issues- It wont get faster and where do you see more optimism from the MEC- I see many meetings but very few agreements reached. I do appreciate your pov.
Bz
Bozo, I would suggest you get a hold of one of the guys on the NC or a P2P guy with your questions. While it may seem like nothing's happening or moving too slow the NC is moving along as fast as they can. I'm no company apologist either, but every time we've asked for more meetings they have agreed.

We are in negotiations right now for the major pillars of what our contract will consist of and that's unfortunately a slow process. Everything that's left essentially ties together. Once we finish off the sections they should come in domino effect until the end.

We want the best contract for JB pilots we can get because there's no copy and paste. You can take a contract today but it'll be a pinto... or you can wait and it'll be better. It may not be a Maserati, but my money is at least a Mercedes. Will we pickett? I don't know. Will we strike? I don't know. I do know that now isn't the time and I hope we don't have to do that. We're in a very different negotiation cycle than we've seen in the past 15ish years.

Best I can say is keep your panties on till the end of the dance. Things are moving. In the end I'm sitting and waiting too, if it's a turd, I'll be trying for first in line at the next WAI with a resume.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:50 AM
  #2768  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
I can buy this, but I do see a strike vote and public embarrassment to push management in the right direction. My guess is a T/A no sooner than Fall 2018- The pace is too slow and we've reached the tough issues- It wont get faster and where do you see more optimism from the MEC- I see many meetings but very few agreements reached. I do appreciate your pov.
Bz
You're not going to see a lot of sections TA'd for a while now.....in the P2P meetings the NC specifically talked about how many of the remaining sections are interconnected. They said that it's like lining up the dominoes and when the first one falls, it'll trigger a bunch of them at the same time....

The last P2P message that they wanted to put out to the guys was to not take a lack of sections being TA'd as an indication of a lack of progress.....

Again, I'm not saying we're going to have a contract tomorrow, but there's more going on than you'd think......

Last edited by BunkerF16; 02-23-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 02-23-2017, 12:01 PM
  #2769  
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Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand View Post
Bozo, I would suggest you get a hold of one of the guys on the NC or a P2P guy with your questions. While it may seem like nothing's happening or moving too slow the NC is moving along as fast as they can. I'm no company apologist either, but every time we've asked for more meetings they have agreed.

We are in negotiations right now for the major pillars of what our contract will consist of and that's unfortunately a slow process. Everything that's left essentially ties together. Once we finish off the sections they should come in domino effect until the end.

We want the best contract for JB pilots we can get because there's no copy and paste. You can take a contract today but it'll be a pinto... or you can wait and it'll be better. It may not be a Maserati, but my money is at least a Mercedes. Will we pickett? I don't know. Will we strike? I don't know. I do know that now isn't the time and I hope we don't have to do that. We're in a very different negotiation cycle than we've seen in the past 15ish years.

Best I can say is keep your panties on till the end of the dance. Things are moving. In the end I'm sitting and waiting too, if it's a turd, I'll be trying for first in line at the next WAI with a resume.
Its not the MEC language that worries me, its the absence of motivation of management. They have no reason to give us anything. At RAH, nothing happened until they literally could not staff the airline- I fear thats what B6 is waiting for---Let's give them some motivation.
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Old 02-23-2017, 12:22 PM
  #2770  
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Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot View Post
Its not the MEC language that worries me, its the absence of motivation of management. They have no reason to give us anything. At RAH, nothing happened until they literally could not staff the airline- I fear thats what B6 is waiting for---Let's give them some motivation.
This is my concern. The dude who said JetBlue knows they can't staff the airline much longer, well, I haven't seen any evidence that they know it. And frankly, I've been through contract negotiations before when my airline cancelled flights due to lack of pilots (thanks to our terrible contract). Didn't make them capitulate at all.

Maybe JetBlue management will respond differently, none of us know. But haven't seen any evidence that they will!!!

In the mean time, I will not sit back and give them the benefit of the doubt like so many of you guys. If you give them an INCH (of good will and help them recruit) they will TAKE a MILE from you/us. Every time. Think about it.
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