WhiteHammer

I have been in 3 of the 4 seats at JB, anyone here can have 4 vacations a year if they have the PTO. You are right not all the pilots can have 4 vacations, there is not enough. But every year there are many that are not used. If someone told you they couldn't get 1 week there are full of ****. I can go to open time right now and pick up at least 8. Maybe they just couldn't get a June or July is what you mean.

I like saving my PTO and doing 4-5 vacations a year. Some guys like selling back PTO. Some guys like to pick up trips then PTO it. This system only doesn't work for those that call in sick all the time. I know guys at other airlines that like our system better. Add some more hours to it, stop senior guys from getting all 4 of there's before anyone else, add some more over the summer, fixed. Or we can get a worse system where you get 3.5 hours a day and use/loose sick time. I really don't care, like you said they would have to hire more people because of all the sick calls.

CaptCoolHand

Frankly you're missing the point.

At other airlines you can be sick and take a vacation. You get to choose if you're sick or spend time with family here. And wow... 8 weeks in sept and oct. How awesome.

BlueJetDork

They are not lying.

Also 3.5 a day is fine when everyone is protected from more than 14 days on *unless they what to fly more.

DAL system in the best in the business.

Our is the worst.

For instance at 10 years longevity they are granted 4 weeks of vacation plus 265 hours of PTS in which the first 100 is no harm no foul unless they are out more than 14 days IN A ROW.

They don't need to sell PTO since it is already in their leading base pay, work rules.

Our PTOSB is pixie dust and is supposed to make up for all the other short falls all at once. It doesn't.

Their system is scaleable across every pilot in their group and our system is a works for 'me' system much like the OJI to OSC instructor.

PasserOGas

PTO sellback motivates people to fly sick. Especially if you need it to pay your bills.

capt707

I said it before and I'll say it again! We need a seperate sick/vacation bank! Our PTO program is crap and the PTO sell back is a scam...

3..2...1... here come the folks saying how much money they make selling back their PTO.

JustAnotherPLT

Im a sell back guy, BUT, I agree we need to revamp our system. What I don't want to see happening is a concession due to not being able to sell back. So our compensation needs to be delta + 1 AND the addition of what I was making with sell back. Simple!

Tom a Hawk

I don't care if you think that theirs is "THE BEST". I don't want forced vacation for low credit and a sick time bank that I won't use unless I start lying. I like the flexibility of our system. Yes I would like to earn more. Yes I would like an even distribution of weeks and bidding in rounds. I do not want a separate sick bank. I do not want the negotiating committee to spend capital on something I will not use unless I start lying and calling in sick more than I actually am. I understand you think the current system incentivizes pilots to fly sick. I think a use or lose system incentivizes pilots to lie and call in sick when they are not, as well. I have told the negotiating committee as much in every survey. We shall see how many others did too when we eventually get a CBA. The negotiating committee knows its a divisive issue, that's why they have polled on it specifically. Bluejetdork, you don't need to convince the internet, you need to convince the three captains sitting at the table.

727_Driver

Vacation. lol what's that? I could have 200 hours given to me. If you can't actually use it it is useless.


Fix the pay, rigs, rsv, schedule, etc and guys won't need to supplement pay with vacation buy back. Except for the few that spend it as fast as they make it.


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atrdriver

Honestly it's impossible to quantify to an exact degree. But pay rates aren't the only variable. The best apples-to-apples comparison would be that of two W-2s for guys in the same aircraft out on trips the same number of days per year at two different airlines.

In lieu of going to that much work, let's just look at the basics:

JB 321 vs Delta 321 5-year FO rates: 126 vs 157. Already 24.6% behind.

JB 401k vs Delta 401k: Pay in 5% to receive 13% vs pay in 0% to receive 16%. Theres another 8% deficit.

Just in pay and retirement that's 32.6% behind for a five-year FO, and our substandard work rules amplify those deficits to a significant degree.

Xtreme87

Does anybody know if the negotiating committee is looking to differentiate the pay between the 320 and 321?