Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major > JetBlue
JetBlue Latest and Greatest >

JetBlue Latest and Greatest


Notices

JetBlue Latest and Greatest

Old 12-27-2016, 06:24 PM
  #2261  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 155
Default

Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
Of vacation system is only a better deal for management. Our system have given Jetblue a 500-600 pilot staffing advantage to our peers. First Jetblue only allocates 2 weeks per pilot. Your hypothetical group of 4 year pilots will not get 4 weeks each. Will not happen. Maybe a few but no where near 100% of all 4 year pilots will get 4 weeks.

We have 12 -14 year pilots who can not hold a single week off.

Our system needs to be completely rewritten and done away with.

Our system is a scam!

Your story about the 4 year pilots getting 4 weeks of vacation reminds me of the toolbag that pointed out our OJI system was the best. We used to only earn Worker Compensation when other were getting line guarantees. This tool bag said he got 90 hours and the JBPA supporters were lying.

Well this tool bag forgot to tell everyone that he took a job at OSC as an instructor and called that OJI - Worker Compensation.

The entire mindset of "Jetblue" needs to get flushed.
I have been in 3 of the 4 seats at JB, anyone here can have 4 vacations a year if they have the PTO. You are right not all the pilots can have 4 vacations, there is not enough. But every year there are many that are not used. If someone told you they couldn't get 1 week there are full of ****. I can go to open time right now and pick up at least 8. Maybe they just couldn't get a June or July is what you mean.

I like saving my PTO and doing 4-5 vacations a year. Some guys like selling back PTO. Some guys like to pick up trips then PTO it. This system only doesn't work for those that call in sick all the time. I know guys at other airlines that like our system better. Add some more hours to it, stop senior guys from getting all 4 of there's before anyone else, add some more over the summer, fixed. Or we can get a worse system where you get 3.5 hours a day and use/loose sick time. I really don't care, like you said they would have to hire more people because of all the sick calls.
WhiteHammer is offline  
Old 12-27-2016, 06:28 PM
  #2262  
Gets Weekends Off
 
CaptCoolHand's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Default

Frankly you're missing the point.

At other airlines you can be sick and take a vacation. You get to choose if you're sick or spend time with family here. And wow... 8 weeks in sept and oct. How awesome.
CaptCoolHand is offline  
Old 12-27-2016, 06:39 PM
  #2263  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Default

Originally Posted by WhiteHammer
I have been in 3 of the 4 seats at JB, anyone here can have 4 vacations a year if they have the PTO. You are right not all the pilots can have 4 vacations, there is not enough. But every year there are many that are not used. If someone told you they couldn't get 1 week there are full of ****. I can go to open time right now and pick up at least 8. Maybe they just couldn't get a June or July is what you mean.

I like saving my PTO and doing 4-5 vacations a year. Some guys like selling back PTO. Some guys like to pick up trips then PTO it. This system only doesn't work for those that call in sick all the time. I know guys at other airlines that like our system better. Add some more hours to it, stop senior guys from getting all 4 of there's before anyone else, add some more over the summer, fixed. Or we can get a worse system where you get 3.5 hours a day and use/loose sick time. I really don't care, like you said they would have to hire more people because of all the sick calls.
They are not lying.

Also 3.5 a day is fine when everyone is protected from more than 14 days on *unless they what to fly more.

DAL system in the best in the business.

Our is the worst.

For instance at 10 years longevity they are granted 4 weeks of vacation plus 265 hours of PTS in which the first 100 is no harm no foul unless they are out more than 14 days IN A ROW.

They don't need to sell PTO since it is already in their leading base pay, work rules.

Our PTOSB is pixie dust and is supposed to make up for all the other short falls all at once. It doesn't.

Their system is scaleable across every pilot in their group and our system is a works for 'me' system much like the OJI to OSC instructor.

Last edited by BlueJetDork; 12-27-2016 at 07:03 PM.
BlueJetDork is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 02:55 AM
  #2264  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Default

PTO sellback motivates people to fly sick. Especially if you need it to pay your bills.
PasserOGas is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 07:10 AM
  #2265  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 917
Default

I said it before and I'll say it again! We need a seperate sick/vacation bank! Our PTO program is crap and the PTO sell back is a scam...

3..2...1... here come the folks saying how much money they make selling back their PTO.
capt707 is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 09:01 AM
  #2266  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 660
Default

Originally Posted by capt707
I said it before and I'll say it again! We need a seperate sick/vacation bank! Our PTO program is crap and the PTO sell back is a scam...

3..2...1... here come the folks saying how much money they make selling back their PTO.
Im a sell back guy, BUT, I agree we need to revamp our system. What I don't want to see happening is a concession due to not being able to sell back. So our compensation needs to be delta + 1 AND the addition of what I was making with sell back. Simple!
JustAnotherPLT is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 10:37 AM
  #2267  
What’s it doing now?
 
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 190CA
Posts: 726
Default

Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
They are not lying.

Also 3.5 a day is fine when everyone is protected from more than 14 days on *unless they what to fly more.

DAL system in the best in the business.

Our is the worst.

For instance at 10 years longevity they are granted 4 weeks of vacation plus 265 hours of PTS in which the first 100 is no harm no foul unless they are out more than 14 days IN A ROW.

They don't need to sell PTO since it is already in their leading base pay, work rules.

Our PTOSB is pixie dust and is supposed to make up for all the other short falls all at once. It doesn't.

Their system is scaleable across every pilot in their group and our system is a works for 'me' system much like the OJI to OSC instructor.
I don't care if you think that theirs is "THE BEST". I don't want forced vacation for low credit and a sick time bank that I won't use unless I start lying. I like the flexibility of our system. Yes I would like to earn more. Yes I would like an even distribution of weeks and bidding in rounds. I do not want a separate sick bank. I do not want the negotiating committee to spend capital on something I will not use unless I start lying and calling in sick more than I actually am. I understand you think the current system incentivizes pilots to fly sick. I think a use or lose system incentivizes pilots to lie and call in sick when they are not, as well. I have told the negotiating committee as much in every survey. We shall see how many others did too when we eventually get a CBA. The negotiating committee knows its a divisive issue, that's why they have polled on it specifically. Bluejetdork, you don't need to convince the internet, you need to convince the three captains sitting at the table.
Tom a Hawk is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 11:01 AM
  #2268  
facing forward
 
727_Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: forward facing stick actuator
Posts: 288
Default

Vacation. lol what's that? I could have 200 hours given to me. If you can't actually use it it is useless.


Fix the pay, rigs, rsv, schedule, etc and guys won't need to supplement pay with vacation buy back. Except for the few that spend it as fast as they make it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
727_Driver is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 11:10 AM
  #2269  
Not A Janitor
 
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
Default

Originally Posted by Pickleman
You often comment about our pilots rationalizing about working for 30 to 40 percent less than our peers. Who pays their Airbus Captains 311 to 363 $/hour? That's how the math works.

Not trying to poke you in the chest, but what numbers are you using? Unless you're speaking of other things, like 401k matching, where do you get such a disparity from?
Honestly it's impossible to quantify to an exact degree. But pay rates aren't the only variable. The best apples-to-apples comparison would be that of two W-2s for guys in the same aircraft out on trips the same number of days per year at two different airlines.

In lieu of going to that much work, let's just look at the basics:

JB 321 vs Delta 321 5-year FO rates: 126 vs 157. Already 24.6% behind.

JB 401k vs Delta 401k: Pay in 5% to receive 13% vs pay in 0% to receive 16%. Theres another 8% deficit.

Just in pay and retirement that's 32.6% behind for a five-year FO, and our substandard work rules amplify those deficits to a significant degree.
atrdriver is offline  
Old 12-28-2016, 11:19 AM
  #2270  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,316
Default

Does anybody know if the negotiating committee is looking to differentiate the pay between the 320 and 321?
Xtreme87 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Zoomie
Major
36
01-28-2015 11:44 AM
iahflyr
Major
27
09-30-2014 09:04 AM
Mason32
Regional
270
07-27-2010 06:01 PM
Scott34567
Regional
39
05-29-2008 07:08 PM
Sir James
Major
0
07-29-2005 07:02 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices