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Old 12-28-2016, 11:23 AM
  #2271  
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Originally Posted by Xtreme87 View Post
Does anybody know if the negotiating committee is looking to differentiate the pay between the 320 and 321?
With a 50 seat difference, they better be!!
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:33 AM
  #2272  
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT View Post
With a 50 seat difference, they better be!!
The 320 will have 165 seats eventually.
Agree with you
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:42 AM
  #2273  
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Originally Posted by Xtreme87 View Post
Does anybody know if the negotiating committee is looking to differentiate the pay between the 320 and 321?
Deltas is $10 an hour difference. Their CS100 is $10 less than their A320. I hope we match those rates.
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:51 PM
  #2274  
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Originally Posted by atrdriver View Post
Honestly it's impossible to quantify to an exact degree. But pay rates aren't the only variable. The best apples-to-apples comparison would be that of two W-2s for guys in the same aircraft out on trips the same number of days per year at two different airlines.

In lieu of going to that much work, let's just look at the basics:

JB 321 vs Delta 321 5-year FO rates: 126 vs 157. Already 24.6% behind.

JB 401k vs Delta 401k: Pay in 5% to receive 13% vs pay in 0% to receive 16%. Theres another 8% deficit.

Just in pay and retirement that's 32.6% behind for a five-year FO, and our substandard work rules amplify those deficits to a significant degree.
Ha! And you were using our 2017 pay rate, which we had to give up 1/3-1/2 of our profit sharing to get! Delta, who had better profit sharing to begin with (no 5% theft/cliff) gave up nothing in profit sharing.

You literally can't fix the built-in stupid in so many of our pilots. Just can't be fixed. Divisive comment, yes. Still so true? Unfortunately.
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Old 12-28-2016, 03:31 PM
  #2275  
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Originally Posted by Tom a Hawk View Post
... I don't want forced vacation for low credit
Then you don't want to understand that mandatory PTV is required to force the company to staff the airline and to add slots in peak times. 3.25 v 5.0 isn't lower when it results in the fewer days on for the same credit range. This is function of their scheduling section not the PTV system. They have one we don't.

... I understand you think the current system incentivizes pilots to fly sick.
That is your misunderstanding. I never said that, implied it or believe it. I current system incentives the opposite and that is for pilots to fly sick, FTG and to extend FDPs so that can keep above the magic 100 hours. I know the current system gives the company a 500 pilot advantage over our peers. A cost savings they have been pocketing for over a decade.

I think a use or lose system incentivizes pilots to lie and call in sick when they are not, as well.
What I do believe and know for certain that using a PTS system as intended is not lying. Their system is intended to allow pilots to manage their lives. You know, weddings, graduations, dances, etc.

I have told the negotiating committee as much in every survey. We shall see how many others did too when we eventually get a CBA. The negotiating committee knows its a divisive issue, that's why they have polled on it specifically. Bluejetdork, you don't need to convince the internet, you need to convince the three captains sitting at the table.
The issue is not at all divisive.

Its $$$$.

They certainly understand that our current system benefits the company to the tune of 500 X 218 X 12 X 83 X 1.30 = $140 million a year a current rates more than it benefit us. I understand you think it benefits you but your system is granting the company $140 a year or $175 million a year at market rates which means the current system in not benefiting us.

Last edited by BlueJetDork; 12-28-2016 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:25 PM
  #2276  
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My bad ...

I read your post incorrectly.

Our system does in fact incentivize pilots to fly sick.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:59 PM
  #2277  
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Originally Posted by Tom a Hawk View Post
I don't care if you think that theirs is "THE BEST". I don't want forced vacation for low credit and a sick time bank that I won't use unless I start lying. I like the flexibility of our system. Yes I would like to earn more. Yes I would like an even distribution of weeks and bidding in rounds. I do not want a separate sick bank. I do not want the negotiating committee to spend capital on something I will not use unless I start lying and calling in sick more than I actually am. I understand you think the current system incentivizes pilots to fly sick. I think a use or lose system incentivizes pilots to lie and call in sick when they are not, as well. I have told the negotiating committee as much in every survey. We shall see how many others did too when we eventually get a CBA. The negotiating committee knows its a divisive issue, that's why they have polled on it specifically. Bluejetdork, you don't need to convince the internet, you need to convince the three captains sitting at the table.
DAL gets more vacation than our combined pot, AND a dedicated sick bank. Why not be able to sell vacation but not sick time?
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:51 AM
  #2278  
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Originally Posted by BlueJetDork View Post
Then you don't want to understand that mandatory PTV is required to force the company to staff the airline and to add slots in peak times. 3.25 v 5.0 isn't lower when it results in the fewer days on for the same credit range. This is function of their scheduling section not the PTV system. They have one we don't.

That is your misunderstanding. I never said that, implied it or believe it. I current system incentives the opposite and that is for pilots to fly sick, FTG and to extend FDPs so that can keep above the magic 100 hours. I know the current system gives the company a 500 pilot advantage over our peers. A cost savings they have been pocketing for over a decade.



What I do believe and know for certain that using a PTS system as intended is not lying. Their system is intended to allow pilots to manage their lives. You know, weddings, graduations, dances, etc.


The issue is not at all divisive.

Its $$$$.

They certainly understand that our current system benefits the company to the tune of 500 X 218 X 12 X 83 X 1.30 = $140 million a year a current rates more than it benefit us. I understand you think it benefits you but your system is granting the company $140 a year or $175 million a year at market rates which means the current system in not benefiting us.

The airline won't willingly sign off on different banks because then that becomes a fiscal responsibility carried year over year. You work for Jetcheap, don't forget.

Based on the survey the current system is favorable to most pilots with the caveat being able to use it. Like many mention you are unable to access all your vacation if you actually have a life or family, i.e. people need intermittent time off. With the scheduling managed how it is PTO is difficult, at best, to use therefore many DO fly sick because otherwise the cant use it for vacation.

Forgive the statistic but I believe upwards of 70-80% of jetblue vacation is allocated for Sept/Oct only. Regardless of your seniority less than 5% of pilots can hold a summer time vacation. Having been here almost 15 years I can attest to that. Multiple solutions have been presented but the airline does not like being told what to do, FACT!

The reality is vacation helps the airline staff properly. Calling in sick at the last minute significantly/negatively affects the operation however the airline refuses to accept this. Add to that the refreshed nature of an employee returning to work and the dividends are great. Sadly you can't tell a company who wants to bring humanity back to air travel how to humanely treat its employees. The wheel is not round at jetblue...
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:59 AM
  #2279  
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They will sign off on separate banks. Why? that is standard and "Cal Sick".
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:28 AM
  #2280  
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/norwegian-airways-uk-new-york-cheap-flight-56-summer-2017-a7500451.html%3Famp#a-00611c0c-f3b4-4d05-a4ac-3ac7a7cd9fb3

Probably old news, but article speaks about the low fairs that are coming from NAI in the near future for crossing the pond. If our CEO wants to make us into a similar outfit offering similar fares, I wonder where that'll leave us in the eyes of our ALPA national comrades; especially those of the legacies. Will we soon be the ones to be denied jumpseats when commuting? On what side of this thing will we find ourselves, and might the LCC trans Atlantic option (staying at B6) be the better career move? Delta just cxld their 787 orders, btw...
 
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