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10-06-2017, 11:11 AM
#4351
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 1,220
VS
3 hr EDCTs. Pilots time out, people miss connections, etc.
Both cause a flight to be >14 mins late (Late in the eyes of the FAA). One is far more disruptive in terms of the operation...
10-06-2017, 12:05 PM
#4352
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
And those cause a flight to be 20 mins late. Pilots don’t time out, customers still make a connection.
VS
3 hr EDCTs. Pilots time out, people miss connections, etc.
Both cause a flight to be >14 mins late (Late in the eyes of the FAA). One is far more disruptive in terms of the operation...
VS
3 hr EDCTs. Pilots time out, people miss connections, etc.
Both cause a flight to be >14 mins late (Late in the eyes of the FAA). One is far more disruptive in terms of the operation...
Traffic volume disparity. Each airline trying to eek out another penny by maximizing capacity. So - and I'd really love to know this - how does a privatized ATC system magically increase flow to a finite geographical piece of concrete?
Wake recat has increased capacity a little. Time based separation (like at Heathrow) has increased it. Well, provided pilots don't screw it up by adjusting separation distances on their own because they're not used to following 2.5 miles behind a heavy.
So exactly what sort of upgrade will get rid of the EDCTs? Better computers? It's a time, rate, distance problem that can be solved on an E6B. Better radar? It's a simple scrience. We already have RVSM and ADS-B so what's the answer? What specifically eliminates EDCTs on a CAVU day in JFK. Because if I slice the JFK landings slots in half, the EDCTs go away. And controllers can manage that with a whiteboard and set of binoculars.
10-06-2017, 01:36 PM
#4353
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,920
So why do we have 3 hr EDCTs? Let's assume the weather in Omaha and JFK is CAVU. No EDCTs in Omaha and JFK is 3 hrs delayed. Same computer systems. Same controllers. Same ATC system. So why is it?
Traffic volume disparity. Each airline trying to eek out another penny by maximizing capacity. So - and I'd really love to know this - how does a privatized ATC system magically increase flow to a finite geographical piece of concrete?
Wake recat has increased capacity a little. Time based separation (like at Heathrow) has increased it. Well, provided pilots don't screw it up by adjusting separation distances on their own because they're not used to following 2.5 miles behind a heavy.
So exactly what sort of upgrade will get rid of the EDCTs? Better computers? It's a time, rate, distance problem that can be solved on an E6B. Better radar? It's a simple scrience. We already have RVSM and ADS-B so what's the answer? What specifically eliminates EDCTs on a CAVU day in JFK. Because if I slice the JFK landings slots in half, the EDCTs go away. And controllers can manage that with a whiteboard and set of binoculars.
Traffic volume disparity. Each airline trying to eek out another penny by maximizing capacity. So - and I'd really love to know this - how does a privatized ATC system magically increase flow to a finite geographical piece of concrete?
Wake recat has increased capacity a little. Time based separation (like at Heathrow) has increased it. Well, provided pilots don't screw it up by adjusting separation distances on their own because they're not used to following 2.5 miles behind a heavy.
So exactly what sort of upgrade will get rid of the EDCTs? Better computers? It's a time, rate, distance problem that can be solved on an E6B. Better radar? It's a simple scrience. We already have RVSM and ADS-B so what's the answer? What specifically eliminates EDCTs on a CAVU day in JFK. Because if I slice the JFK landings slots in half, the EDCTs go away. And controllers can manage that with a whiteboard and set of binoculars.
How about we just go with what it is. Our operation and a poor ATC system in some of the most heavily congested airspace in the world. It's a bad combo.
10-06-2017, 01:44 PM
#4354
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
I'll go with 2/3. What specifically is poor about the ATC system? Nobody can seem to say anything other than...bad, poor, etc. if you heard, "your child is a poor student," wouldn't you want to know exactly what he/she is bad at? We can't throw generalities around without a root cause.
10-06-2017, 05:41 PM
#4356
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: B757F CA
Posts: 409
-Enjoy the coat man.
10-07-2017, 03:55 AM
#4359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 320 FO
Posts: 143
There seems to be confusion on what "privatization" means as it is currently being proposed. As a not-for-profit, with user fees (mainly paid by airlines) ATC will have an actual steady stream of income to plan for system upgrades. They currently operate under the whim of Congress and their funding which isn't consistent from year to year.
The implementation of next-gen has taken much to longer than it should have under the current system. Aircraft are required to have ADS-B but not all ATC facilities have the equipment for it. That allows for tighter separation which provides greater capacity.
Implementation of Data Comm is another example. Slow to be implemented that allows greater capacity.
The implementation of next-gen has taken much to longer than it should have under the current system. Aircraft are required to have ADS-B but not all ATC facilities have the equipment for it. That allows for tighter separation which provides greater capacity.
Implementation of Data Comm is another example. Slow to be implemented that allows greater capacity.
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