atrdriver

In that scenario PBS wouldn't complete your schedule above the min window and you'd be on reserve. Or, more likely, it would give you 3 "normal" trips with a 10 hour 3 day thrown in for good fun.

You're still being underpaid, but apparently you feel better about it because of the 4 day off guarantee. Why the fascination with that clause anyway? Moving on...

BlueJetDork

Why?

Because SPA seems to believe it has value. How much value?

Jetblue pilots seem to think zero

Who is in a better position to know?

Hugh Jaynis

Look, while some of you are stroking out over bullet points from an AIP, why don't you wait for the full TA to pass judgement. There were very significant gains made in pay, scope, LTD, retirement, sick leave, rigs, and vacation. Your pay rates have always been better, but you've always had substandard work rules and possibly the worst health insurance in the industry.

The other thing you don't realize, and you will soon, is that the NMB is not on your side. Did we want higher rates, of course, but the NMB looked at this and said these were the highest single pay increases in NMB history.

Qotsaautopilot

Spirit pilot here. Our AIP is underwhelming especially with a move to pbs. Three things it’s coming with that are extremely important imo, one especially with the ULCC model proliferation as of late.

1. Scope: increased merger protections and tightened codesharing language. I feel a merger another US carrier and or codeshare with Norwegian, frontier, or wow is coming we just don’t know when. We have some merger protections but this AIP is said to increase them. We have zero codeshare protection except no Spirit will be furloughed as a result of one. I think you guys know how valuable having very tight codeshare protections is. We will have to see what the language says over the next couple weeks.

2. LTD: ours plain sucks. Period! It pays for two years and that’s it. The new plan pays a max of $15k/mo and til age 65. You cannot buy that coverage outside a group policy. Your medical can be gone at the flip of a coin. This was huge.

^^ these were the main two items we went back for after the mediator told us we were not getting released and the company offer was the largest increase ever under the RLA. She iced us for three months because we said no deal.

3. Our retirement plan is a 9% match. If you max they stop paying. So anyone making over $200k (under 50 years old) is getting 9% on that and that’s it. Going to a DC plan is a big win. 16% is industry standard. We have 15% at the end of the contract. They took that one percent just to snub us I’m sure and starting at 11% and moving 15% along the way was another FU just to spite us I’m sure.

So we need to see the full language and all the work rules to have full picture. If those are good the question is do we want to risk lost wages, a push back of the next amendable date, scope exploitation (very real), and hope you don’t lose your medical, to get more money. How much can we get is the question and how long will it take. Most likely the NC will step down so we have to appoint new ones, resurvey the group on why it was voted down and then convince the mediator to bring us back. She comes from AA management with a history of negotiating concessionary labor deals btw.

Each one of us have to make that choice. We will see soon I guess

rvr1800

While I understand your concern about the lack of LTD, that’s something that affects a small percentage of your pilot group. You’re sacrificing the pay of 90% of your group to protect at the most 10% of your group.

Hugh Jaynis

Spoken like somebody that sounds young and thinks they're invincible. Pay rates mean nothing if you can't fly. LTD doesn't affect you until it does. You know how fragile your medical is? You want to worry about replacing a $200k+ job while owning a home and raising kids? This LTD covers us to age 65 at $15k/month and not having it is a deal breaker for this pilot group.

Qotsaautopilot

I’m actually a young guy healthy guy. If I lose my medical unfortunately my family we are in bad shape. Certainly not pay check to paycheck type bad but the time it would take me to retrain and replace my pilot income is probably a long long time and that’s if it could replace it at all. We have a weekly email from the union and at the bottom it is always soliciting sick time donations for guys that are out. Many of them are young and I’m sure none of them thought they’d be there.

Also, scope was my number one item on my post for obvious reasons. Scope isn’t cheap but after it’s been exploited it’s a lot more expensive and you may never get it at that point. Southwest got theirs when their pay was lagging which was smart so they don’t have to try and buy it back like Delta is trying to do

I’m not justifying the offer I’m just saying it’s coming with some other very large wins.

atrdriver

They may value it a ton, but it isn't a hill for us to die on. Especially since it's more valuable under a hard line/conflict drop arrangement than under PBS. We have bigger fish to fry which will enhance both QOL and our W2.

Thanks for the insight. I'm almost to the point where an annual EKG comes into play so I can certainly appreciate the LTD provisions.

Silver02ex

If you were there for the survey, you would know that after negotiations broke down in September, majority of the Spirit pilots thought that LTD and scope was high on their priority. Which is why it’s in the AIP and wasn’t in the company offer back in September before negotiations broke down. As far as work rules, the 4 days off and red/green is very important. The idea of dropping their entire schedule and pick when and what to work is important to us too.

BlueJetDork

Never said was a rule we should bargain for.

However, we need to under its value as a possible reason why their bases rates are an outlier within the market place of recently negotiated deals. Otherwise, how else are we to defend ourselves /explain it way when management put these rates in front of us?

So far on this thread it has been SPA sucks and Jetblue pilots rock so we deserve more.