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Corporate to Airlines venting...

Old 12-05-2017, 07:30 PM
  #1  
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Default Corporate to Airlines venting...

Just need to vent this out-

Think back 20, 15, even 10 years ago; The airline pilot gig wasn’t so good for many, and a lot of us were out looking for jobs/looking for a change. Many of us, including myself looked into corporate flying and went through friends/acquaintances/networking connections asking for info and assistance for jobs. The reasons for looking into corporate were many, but I remember many of my corporate friends talking about how much they loved their jobs.
“It’s been great for my golf game!”
“I’m home every night with the family.”
“Pay is double/triple what I’d get at the airlines.”
“Excellent health/retirement/vacation.”
“I get paid airline tickets and hotels, and I get all the miles and hotel points. Took the family to Hawaii last month and it cost nothing because it was all on points!”
“Greatest job in the world. Never want to go to the airlines.”
Sounded great, and it was nice to hear from people that were happy, while us airline guys were getting our skulls beat in.
So, when times were tough I asked a couple of those guys for recommendations to get into corporate world. Responses were very similar-
“I’d love to help you, but it’s tough to get into corporate if you’re an airline guy.”
“Corporate is service-based, and they don’t like airline guys because they won’t throw bags into the cargo space/clean the airplane/blah blah blah”
“You’ll need to go to FlightSafety and get yourself a [insert type rating here] type in order for anyone to look at you. Even then, they won’t take you cause it’s too competitive amongst those already in corporate.”

But now that times have changed, those same corporate acquaintances of mine are in a rush to get into the airlines. Now I’m getting asked- “Can you help me out? Can you send in a recommendation for me?”
I ask them why they want out of their corporate gig-
“My pay sucks”
“My retirement is nothing compared to what I’d make at the airlines.”
“The flying is boring.”
“Job security is marginal”
Asking them further, has their pay been cut? Have they lost benefits? What’s the big difference compared to when they were happy people 10+ years ago? Basically, there wasn’t much change, just that they haven’t gotten the pay increases to the levels that the airlines have over the past 8 years. (Trying to explain to them that the pay rates at the airlines are not increases, more like restorations to what we were at 15 years ago minus inflation.)

One dude I know wants to go straight to FedEx. Says he likes their benefits and pay. Almost implies that he should have a good chance at a job there. He’s never flown anything bigger than a Citation, and has zero 121 time, including regionals. And his yearly flight time is under 300 hours. He doesn’t even know anyone at FedEx.

Have a couple others that are of the same mindset- that they should just be able to get an interview at SWA/UAL/DAL/FDX/UPS immediately because there is a “pilot shortage.”

So, my vent is- what’s the deal? Airlines suck and people want to go to corporate... “Good luck- that’s not gonna happen.”
But now that airlines are better, corporate want to go to airlines and they should be an easy application/interview/hire. Just kinda rubs me the wrong way.
I dunno-

And another thing- my bourbon glass is empty.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:35 PM
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Don’t worry. I found the problem. You need more bourbon. The rest doesn’t matter.

And on that note, I’m off for a glass myself.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:37 PM
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Advice taken- thank you
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:43 PM
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I’ve done both... switched and switched again. Airline —> REALLY good corporate gig —> awesome airline job

Just be a humble airline guy at a corporate interview with the right attitude and a go-getter spirit, then you stand a good chance. Or be a humble corporate guy at an airline interview with the right attitude and a go-getter spirit, then you stand a good chance there as well. As we all know, getting the interview is the hard part and usually requires lots of leg work mixed with great timing.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:24 AM
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More bourbon is rarely wrong if you aren't driving or flying soon...

That said...relax...you won. You hung on, and now you've got the seniority and a rebounding industry to enjoy for a while.

Here's my synopsis....

A fighter pilot looks in the mirror and says "who da man?" The answer: "YOU da man!"

An airline pilot looks in the a mirror and says "Who da man?" The answer: "Sully IS the man. But if Sully ain't captain--then YOU da man!"

A corporate guy looks in the mirror and says "Who da man?" The answer: "The man is back 8 feet behind the curtain. You picked up his dry cleaning for him on the way to the FBO..."

Not everyone is built for corporate. I know some guys who have done the job and done very well. I also know some who left killer jobs for big name Part 91 owners to go fly for Jetblue or SWA...because they'd rather drive a bus and "be the man". May sound silly--but I darn sure like being an airline captain. I'd pick up cans or bottles to feed my family if I needed to, but given the choice I think there are very, very few jobs that give you the time off and autonomy we have in our career. I'll take a ****ty hub turn now and then over living on a beeper anyday.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:35 AM
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Please go post this on pro pilot world lol
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:26 PM
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I feel your pain. I’ve done both and I know it can be very frustrating trying to get a rec. One thing I’ll add, a rec at a small corporate operation is a heck of a lot different than a rec at an airline with 14,000+ pilots. Not saying you didn’t deserve it, but lots of times if a Corp guy recs someone who doesn’t work out (or quits to go back to the airlines etc) their reputation will be tarnished. In the airline world, recs are a dime a dozen with no real downside for the person writing it.

My 2 cents, if you like the guy, be the bigger man and write them the rec. I’d always rather go through life with one more friend.
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:47 PM
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Here is what you missed out on...

https://youtu.be/lDY9R43VI8c
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FMGEC View Post
Just need to vent this out-

Think back 20, 15, even 10 years ago; The airline pilot gig wasn’t so good for many, and a lot of us were out looking for jobs/looking for a change. Many of us, including myself looked into corporate flying and went through friends/acquaintances/networking connections asking for info and assistance for jobs. The reasons for looking into corporate were many, but I remember many of my corporate friends talking about how much they loved their jobs.
“It’s been great for my golf game!”
“I’m home every night with the family.”
“Pay is double/triple what I’d get at the airlines.”
“Excellent health/retirement/vacation.”
“I get paid airline tickets and hotels, and I get all the miles and hotel points. Took the family to Hawaii last month and it cost nothing because it was all on points!”
“Greatest job in the world. Never want to go to the airlines.”
Sounded great, and it was nice to hear from people that were happy, while us airline guys were getting our skulls beat in.
So, when times were tough I asked a couple of those guys for recommendations to get into corporate world. Responses were very similar-
“I’d love to help you, but it’s tough to get into corporate if you’re an airline guy.”
“Corporate is service-based, and they don’t like airline guys because they won’t throw bags into the cargo space/clean the airplane/blah blah blah”
“You’ll need to go to FlightSafety and get yourself a [insert type rating here] type in order for anyone to look at you. Even then, they won’t take you cause it’s too competitive amongst those already in corporate.”

But now that times have changed, those same corporate acquaintances of mine are in a rush to get into the airlines. Now I’m getting asked- “Can you help me out? Can you send in a recommendation for me?”
I ask them why they want out of their corporate gig-
“My pay sucks”
“My retirement is nothing compared to what I’d make at the airlines.”
“The flying is boring.”
“Job security is marginal”
Asking them further, has their pay been cut? Have they lost benefits? What’s the big difference compared to when they were happy people 10+ years ago? Basically, there wasn’t much change, just that they haven’t gotten the pay increases to the levels that the airlines have over the past 8 years. (Trying to explain to them that the pay rates at the airlines are not increases, more like restorations to what we were at 15 years ago minus inflation.)

One dude I know wants to go straight to FedEx. Says he likes their benefits and pay. Almost implies that he should have a good chance at a job there. He’s never flown anything bigger than a Citation, and has zero 121 time, including regionals. And his yearly flight time is under 300 hours. He doesn’t even know anyone at FedEx.

Have a couple others that are of the same mindset- that they should just be able to get an interview at SWA/UAL/DAL/FDX/UPS immediately because there is a “pilot shortage.”

So, my vent is- what’s the deal? Airlines suck and people want to go to corporate... “Good luck- that’s not gonna happen.”
But now that airlines are better, corporate want to go to airlines and they should be an easy application/interview/hire. Just kinda rubs me the wrong way.
I dunno-

And another thing- my bourbon glass is empty.

I’ll do you one better. In 2001, I wrote recommendations for 3 friends to try to get them interviews with Delta. An AirTran Pilot, a JetBlue Pilot, and a friend at Eagle. In 2002, when I found myself being broomed out the door, I reached out to the AirTran guy and he walked my stuff in. I called the JetBlue friend and his response was, “What will you do if you get recalled? You’ll leave and go back right?” You probably won’t ever get recalled anyway, Delta will never survive this anyway....”-click. He hung up on me. I couldn’t believe it. A year earlier, he was begging for help and when I needed help, he enjoyed my pain so thoroughly, it made me ill.

I experienced the same challenges the first year trying to break into the corporate world. As an Airline furloughee, it takes a lot of luck along with everything else, and you’re at a huge disadvantage out of the gate. However, I agree with all the other responses on here. Corporate departments are small and a guy that they train and leaves in a year would look bad on the person doing the recommending, most likely. Also, as has been said, be the bigger man. Help someone out if you can, even if they turned their back on you. But you might remind the friend how they left you hanging when you needed the helping hand. It might be worth a case of good bourbon some day.

Disclaimer: I know my former friends actions in no way represent the overall JetBlue Pilots. Ive been treated great when I’ve jumpseated with you guys and girls. It was the person, not the Airline talking.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:06 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Big E 757 View Post
I’ll do you one better. In 2001, I wrote recommendations for 3 friends to try to get them interviews with Delta. An AirTran Pilot, a JetBlue Pilot, and a friend at Eagle. In 2002, when I found myself being broomed out the door, I reached out to the AirTran guy and he walked my stuff in. I called the JetBlue friend and his response was, “What will you do if you get recalled? You’ll leave and go back right?” You probably won’t ever get recalled anyway, Delta will never survive this anyway....”-click. He hung up on me. I couldn’t believe it. A year earlier, he was begging for help and when I needed help, he enjoyed my pain so thoroughly, it made me ill.

I experienced the same challenges the first year trying to break into the corporate world. As an Airline furloughee, it takes a lot of luck along with everything else, and you’re at a huge disadvantage out of the gate. However, I agree with all the other responses on here. Corporate departments are small and a guy that they train and leaves in a year would look bad on the person doing the recommending, most likely. Also, as has been said, be the bigger man. Help someone out if you can, even if they turned their back on you. But you might remind the friend how they left you hanging when you needed the helping hand. It might be worth a case of good bourbon some day.

Disclaimer: I know my former friends actions in no way represent the overall JetBlue Pilots. Ive been treated great when I’ve jumpseated with you guys and girls. It was the person, not the Airline talking.
I try to always treat people the way I want to be treated. And that includes an honest answer. The truth of the matter is that my LOR is not a magic carpet ride into a new hire class.

If I am unwilling to write that letter I will tell the person why. If I am willing to write that letter they need to understand how limited it’s effect may be.

I’ve also done corporate flying in the past. It has been my experience that the number one topic that corporate guys like to talk trash about are airline guys. I don’t take it personal. It’s just the ying and yang of the cultures.
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