CBreezy

Then DALPA is wrong. The letter is a legal interpretation from the FAA. It's settled and no matter what DALPA says, the FAA LOI takes precedence.

From the LOI:if the certificate holder intends or may intend to use the flightcrew member for another flight or further aircraft movement, the certificate holder may do so by holding the pilot on duty with the FDP clock running, making necessary adjustments based on any assignments to ensure that the pertinent FDP limits are not violated. If he is met at the gate or told at the DH at his flight that he is now operating it, outside of any CBA restrictions, this is 100% legal. Not liking it and not being legal are different things

IDIOTPILOT

This was what a lot of companies and unions were thinking at the time 117 came out. The letters of interpretation came out a few months after 117 went into effect and many companies now routinely add legs both voluntarily and involuntary after scheduled block in.

Your CBA may have language addressing what they consider “affirmative intent”. It may even address it indirectly. That changes the scenario and a lot of contracts don’t fit neatly into how 117 is written.

WhiskeyDelta

Ok, let’s play this out a little more. How do I know, as a 121 pilot, when my FDP is over? 1 hour after schedule FDP ends? 2, 3, 4?

There appears to be an assumption that FDP will never end except when a pilot reaches his/her max potential FDP.

Note: read the above without regard to any labor contractual language. That’s irrelevant here.

Also, with regard to the assignment to fly a scheduled DH leg, when was the decision made by the company to assign the pilot to work it? Before the FDP originally ended or after the last working leg and just before the DH was supposed to leave? How do pilots receive affirmative intent for no further flying? Should I always be ready to fly beyond my scheduled FDP (assuming no delays and no labor protections)?

ELAC321

Did you not read the LOI? It’s pretty clear..

CBreezy

According to the LOIs I've read, I'll do my best to answer the questions. Outside of a contract, other than being affirmatively being "released to rest" yes, the company can call you back to the airport and have you operate a flight within a FDP. They can hold you on duty until the end of your FDP. There isn't really any clarification whether affirmative intent is taking company scheduled transportation to the hotel. It is intentionally left vague and very much favors the company.

Regarding the DH leg, when the decision is made is irrelevant. As long as you are still on duty, and as you are not "in rest," the company can assign you to fly until your FDP clock expires. Theoretically, they could cancel your DH reservation or even your hotel room reservation and recall you to the airport to operate as many flights as fit within the FDP. Lastly, I believe the FAA expects you to show up to ever duty period fully rested to operate within your max FDP. And yes, I'm disappointed that is the interpretation that used.

IDIOTPILOT

That’s actually not true either. See below.

“The fligbtorew member's responsibility is to report sufficiently rested for the FDP that was known and assigned, not the entire length of the FDP that could have been assigned.”

http://www3.alpa.org/LinkClick.aspx?...%3d&tabid=9042

CBreezy

Well, I missed that one.

wxman1959

I believe that while the FCM is still on duty, the airline may assign more flights. Once the FCM has been released into a rest period is when they may not request the pilot to fly until the rest period has been concluded.
I believe that the airline may even request the pilot to remain at the airport to be available to receive additional flights, essentially "Airport Standby", the FDP clock will keep running until released from ASB into rest or at the end of all flights assigned to the FCM while on ASB.

Obviouslly, when any additional flights are assigned the limitations in 117.11 (Table A), 117.13 (Table B), cumulative limitations in 117.23 must still be observed, and the FCM must still afirm that he/she is fit for duty with each flight 117.5.

With Volunteer Flying a FCM may do so even if they have been released into a rest period. If the additional flight(s) will occur before 10 hours of rest have been taken by the FCM, the extra flights are just part of the previously ended FDP, where the same re-calculations for 117.11, 117.13 117.23 must still be done and 117.5 must be complied with. The difference here is that the Airline may not request the FCM to accept the addional flight(s), but the airline does not have to accept the FCM request for the extra flying.

Obviously, the OpSpecs may differ on such procedures, and any Union agreement may also additional constraints.

I have attached links for FAA LOI that may be helpful.

http://far117understanding.files.wor...rpretation.pdf

http://far117understanding.files.wor...rpretation.pdf

FL370esq

Interesting that Charlie Tutt uses his personal address rather than his 4th floor address on the Delta Campus.

Booker

It's been a while since I worked for SureJet, but wasn't 990 Toffie the A-Tech Center?