ULCC Model in the U.S.
#81
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
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I wonder how the "Basic Economy" stuff is working out for the big guys? Sure doesn't seem like it's hurt us, our planes are still full, but I wonder how the big airlines see it so far? I'm sure it's at least going better than Ted and Song
#82
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Load factor is a tiny measure of success. You can fill planes without making money
#83
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Position: 1900D CA
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My point was more so that United starting their basic economy hasn't seemed to pull customers off of our planes. I was just pointing out that the the ULCC load factor hasn't decreased with the legacies trying to play the cheapo fare game. I am more curious how it's working for the big airlines
And to your point, when Frontier went bankrupt the planes were full.
#84
Right, no doubt. But Frontier & Spirit are making money.
My point was more so that United starting their basic economy hasn't seemed to pull customers off of our planes. I was just pointing out that the the ULCC load factor hasn't decreased with the legacies trying to play the cheapo fare game. I am more curious how it's working for the big airlines
And to your point, when Frontier went bankrupt the planes were full.
My point was more so that United starting their basic economy hasn't seemed to pull customers off of our planes. I was just pointing out that the the ULCC load factor hasn't decreased with the legacies trying to play the cheapo fare game. I am more curious how it's working for the big airlines
And to your point, when Frontier went bankrupt the planes were full.
It has become kind of a MAD between the ULCCs and the legacies with basic economy. The difference is that the ULCCs are designed around low cost whereas the legacies can afford to subsidize the loss is revenue so long as their one BIG cost (fuel) is cheap. If fuel goes up, I wouldn’t be surprised to see AA and UAL dump basic economy for higher yielding fares to offset the increase in cost.
#88
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Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,384
Obviously ULCC pilots goal is to achieve pay parity with our legacy counterparts. We have made major strides in that direction. Both Frontier and Spirit have dramatically better contracts than we did a few years ago.
Why boast about profitability? Its job security. Its upgrades. Its seniority.
#89
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
I suspect AA is most at risk to the ULCC model. It seems like Spirit and Frontier are gaining ground in many AA hubs; 2020+ is going to be interesting as more planes are added, more routes are added to the network, and more bases are opened.
#90
I realize that you are trying to make a point, and a fair one at that. However, the ULCCs have found ways to reduce aircraft and fuel costs. Aircraft costs are reduced by higher utilization rates and by bulk orders (Indigos 430 aircraft order). Fuel costs are reduced by higher seating counts, lower cost index and high percentage of fuel efficient aircraft.
Obviously ULCC pilots goal is to achieve pay parity with our legacy counterparts. We have made major strides in that direction. Both Frontier and Spirit have dramatically better contracts than we did a few years ago.
Why boast about profitability? Its job security. Its upgrades. Its seniority.
Obviously ULCC pilots goal is to achieve pay parity with our legacy counterparts. We have made major strides in that direction. Both Frontier and Spirit have dramatically better contracts than we did a few years ago.
Why boast about profitability? Its job security. Its upgrades. Its seniority.
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