ALPA: Don't raise retirement age

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05-25-2022 | 06:11 PM

#61

rickair7777

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From: Engines Turn or People Swim

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueScholar

There are more ATP holders than commercial pilot jobs. How is that a shortage?

1. How many are still alive? The FAA database doesn't track that. Did somebody research every single name? If not, they're voting the graveyard.
2. How many are over 65?
3. How many have medicals? You could actually pull that from the database.
4. How many have zero interest in airlines, either employed in other sectors or not flying at all?

05-25-2022 | 06:33 PM

#62

dualinput

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CFIsoonToBeFO

How many of these ATP holders are over 65 and how many have Corporate Jobs. We need these stats to prove/dis-prove the surplus of ATP’s data

If they have corporate jobs and aren’t leaving to be airline pilots it’s because the compensation isn’t high enough. It’s not a shortage.

05-25-2022 | 06:42 PM

#63

CFIsoonToBeFO

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dualinput

If they have corporate jobs and aren’t leaving to be airline pilots it’s because the compensation isn’t high enough. It’s not a shortage.

Not true. Some like their bosses and don’t want to relocate and enjoy being at home and not being based in “Big Cities”. Not everyone will jump ship for an extra dollar (which debunks ALPA’s thoughts. If so they’d stay at the regionals and flow and collect their 150-200k bonuses

05-25-2022 | 09:44 PM

#64

highfarfast

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CFIsoonToBeFO

It IS true. Just about anyone will change what they’re doing if the conditions are right. Hit the right compensation, the right work rules, the right commuter policies, the right work culture, etc and changes will happen. What moves them will be different for each individual though so it may be harder to hit the right combination to have the best impact. But those numbers definitely DO matter.

I flew corporate, liked my boss, didn’t want to relocate, and enjoyed being at home and not being based in “Big Cities”. Yet here I am. My needs were met to make it worthwhile for me. Others that haven’t simply have different thresholds that haven’t been met yet.

05-26-2022 | 06:00 AM

#65

DeltaboundRedux

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From: Enoch Powell Enthusiast

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer

The fundamental problem is that the aviation market is overregulated. These problems are caused by government and will not be fixed until government gets out of the way.

Since this hasn't happened in any federally regulated industry for any length of time over the past 50 years (except the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act), I'd say this is a non-starter.

It ain't called "Leviathan" for nothing.

Not trying to be hostile. But appealing to government to "get out the way" is a fool's errand.

05-26-2022 | 06:31 AM

#66

CBreezy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

It's been awhile since I looked, but last I checked, in order to be considered an active ATP/Commercial, you had to hold a valid medical and under 65

05-26-2022 | 06:51 AM

#67

rickair7777

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From: Engines Turn or People Swim

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy

It's been awhile since I looked, but last I checked, in order to be considered an active ATP/Commercial, you had to hold a valid medical and under 65

Who tracks that? I guess the FAA has age and medical, and if you're dead your medical will expire in a year anyway. But DoB should not be publicly available to anyone other than the FAA.

But you can still have zero interest in airlines, rich guys who have an ATP and 1C/2C medical for insurance.

For practical purposes, you could assume that *most* such pilots over age 50 are not interested in airlines if they're not currently in the airlines.

05-26-2022 | 01:52 PM

#68

TransWorld

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From: Fully Retired

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

I would be willing to bet there are a lot in category 4.

Just my educated guess.

05-28-2022 | 12:34 PM

#69

Cujo665

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From: Semi-Retired...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer

So the unions don't want to allow an extension of retirement age, and they don't want to lower the artificially high entry barrier, so what solutions are they actually coming up with to help solve at least the current short term acute pilot shortage?

please. The historical entry requirement was an ATP and several thousand hours, like around 4500 to get an RJ jet job. As management kept taking concessions from pilots over the decades, they had to hire less and less qualified applicants. By late 2006 they were hiring ink wet 250 hour commercials. That ended around mid 2012. After the 2008 recession there was little hiring for over two years. So, a small window of 2-4 years where minimums dipped to the lowest legal applicant coincidentally when pay and work rules dipped to their lowest too.
no, the ATP rule only restores a portion of the experience it used to take.

05-28-2022 | 02:47 PM

#70

Swedish Blender

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From: fins to the left, fins to the right

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cujo665

please. The historical entry requirement was an ATP and several thousand hours, like around 4500 to get an RJ jet job. .

That is not even close to the truth. Mid 90s American Eagle (Envoy) had the highest mins at 1500/300. You could get a job at Comair/ASA and a host of others (PFT) with 1200/200. I believe Mesaba was the lowest non-PFT mins at 1000tt.