MAX extension not in current defense bill
10-13-2022 | 01:34 PM
#41
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From: UNA
10-13-2022 | 06:22 PM
#42
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It's ten seconds from onset to an irrecoverable condition. WITH all the bells and whistles and shakers going off. Now, yeah, you're probably god's gift to aviation and would've "rolled it" like Denzel to save everyone. But for the rest of us, ten seconds isn't much.
10-13-2022 | 06:54 PM
#43
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Almost anyone could be sufficiently confused to get a lot of nose down trim before noticing that the INTERMITTENT trim wheel motion was not the other guy just doing his thing.
Now you're going downhill fast... a good airman would idle the thrust, that would give you a fighting chance but with enough speed and aerodynamic force on the trim it will take a lot of force, like both hands (maybe all four hands), to move the wheel and untrim it. IIRC they determined that it would impossible to move the trim by hand above a certain speed.
Even with good airmen on a good day, you're probably going to scare the crap out of everyone onboard.
10-13-2022 | 11:31 PM
#44
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From: Stick Monkey
You may be right. But then again, How many times have so many lamented how the 1500 hour rule is nonsense and needs to go away? The victims groups seemed to hold the line. This may be a more imposing roadblock than expected.
10-14-2022 | 06:43 AM
#45
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
In this case the vast majority of max victims aren't US voters. The colgan families made a difference re. 1500 hours, and still do.
10-14-2022 | 10:33 PM
#47
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The max caught the worlds attention, embarrassed the FAA, and made Boeing a laughing stock. Colgan was a tragedy, but it pales in magnitude and I’m pretty sure there might be political will to go against Boeing. The more attention this gets, the worse for Boeing. Not the other way around. Respectfully.
10-15-2022 | 06:34 AM
#48
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Yeah the more I learned about all the details, it would be sketchy for anyone.
Almost anyone could be sufficiently confused to get a lot of nose down trim before noticing that the INTERMITTENT trim wheel motion was not the other guy just doing his thing.
Now you're going downhill fast... a good airman would idle the thrust, that would give you a fighting chance but with enough speed and aerodynamic force on the trim it will take a lot of force, like both hands (maybe all four hands), to move the wheel and untrim it. IIRC they determined that it would impossible to move the trim by hand above a certain speed.
Even with good airmen on a good day, you're probably going to scare the crap out of everyone onboard.
Almost anyone could be sufficiently confused to get a lot of nose down trim before noticing that the INTERMITTENT trim wheel motion was not the other guy just doing his thing.
Now you're going downhill fast... a good airman would idle the thrust, that would give you a fighting chance but with enough speed and aerodynamic force on the trim it will take a lot of force, like both hands (maybe all four hands), to move the wheel and untrim it. IIRC they determined that it would impossible to move the trim by hand above a certain speed.
Even with good airmen on a good day, you're probably going to scare the crap out of everyone onboard.
10-15-2022 | 06:51 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by Originally Posted by [b
rickair7777[/b] View Post
Yeah the more I learned about all the details, it would be sketchy for anyone.
Almost anyone could be sufficiently confused to get a lot of nose down trim before noticing that the INTERMITTENT trim wheel motion was not the other guy just doing his thing.
Now you're going downhill fast... a good airman would idle the thrust, that would give you a fighting chance but with enough speed and aerodynamic force on the trim it will take a lot of force, like both hands (maybe all four hands), to move the wheel and untrim it. IIRC they determined that it would impossible to move the trim by hand above a certain speed.
Even with good airmen on a good day, you're probably going to scare the crap out of everyone onboard.
CBreezy;3512951]This. I've done this in the sim. It isn't fun even when you catch it relatively early.
Yeah the more I learned about all the details, it would be sketchy for anyone.
Almost anyone could be sufficiently confused to get a lot of nose down trim before noticing that the INTERMITTENT trim wheel motion was not the other guy just doing his thing.
Now you're going downhill fast... a good airman would idle the thrust, that would give you a fighting chance but with enough speed and aerodynamic force on the trim it will take a lot of force, like both hands (maybe all four hands), to move the wheel and untrim it. IIRC they determined that it would impossible to move the trim by hand above a certain speed.
Even with good airmen on a good day, you're probably going to scare the crap out of everyone onboard.
CBreezy;3512951]This. I've done this in the sim. It isn't fun even when you catch it relatively early.
Yes, they did determine there was a speed where you could not move the trim wheel. Its 420 knots. 70 knots above VMO and just shy on VNE.
Yes, people can be confused about movement and bells and whistles. Guess what isn't confusing? The amount of force I am having to use to keep the nose up, hey, why don't I trim those forces off? All you have to do is trim, trim overrides MCAS all day long. Just Like the Lion Air report stated.
Speaking of reports? Where is the Ethiopian report?
10-15-2022 | 09:14 AM
#50
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Nothing is fun in the SIM.
Yes, they did determine there was a speed where you could not move the trim wheel. Its 420 knots. 70 knots above VMO and just shy on VNE.
Yes, people can be confused about movement and bells and whistles. Guess what isn't confusing? The amount of force I am having to use to keep the nose up, hey, why don't I trim those forces off? All you have to do is trim, trim overrides MCAS all day long. Just Like the Lion Air report stated.
Speaking of reports? Where is the Ethiopian report?
Yes, they did determine there was a speed where you could not move the trim wheel. Its 420 knots. 70 knots above VMO and just shy on VNE.
Yes, people can be confused about movement and bells and whistles. Guess what isn't confusing? The amount of force I am having to use to keep the nose up, hey, why don't I trim those forces off? All you have to do is trim, trim overrides MCAS all day long. Just Like the Lion Air report stated.
Speaking of reports? Where is the Ethiopian report?
And it's not 420... As anyone who has actually had to manually trim a 727 or 737 will tell you.
Last edited by 4dalulz; 10-15-2022 at 09:27 AM.
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