MAX extension not in current defense bill

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10-15-2022 | 09:35 AM

#51

flyguy81

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dalulz

Thankfully not many are forced to be confined to a cockpit with you. Those that are... Well, I guess everyone needs to suffer once in a while.

And it's not 420... As anyone who has actually had to manually trim a 727 or 737 will tell you.

No, it’s not fun. But it’s a lot easier if you’re trying to do it without thrust levers full forward. Power = speed…which is what you don’t want.

Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. If you change configuration and get something you don’t like….change it back. Basic private pilot stuff anyone would know had they actually done any flying outside ab initio….

10-15-2022 | 10:51 AM

#52

tallpilot

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From: A320 FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dalulz

It's not but it should.

Nice cover forgetting to mention that the manual trim wouldn't move at all - at which point what can you do? Nose is trimmed basically full down, and in a battle between stab and elevator, the stab always wins.

Like it or not Boeing built a POS with the max. A plane with "surprise lawn dart mode" which gives you ten seconds to recover or die.

Plenty of things to hate about the 737 but the Max is the nicest flying one of the bunch (old guys like the -200 but I haven't flown that). Boeing's approach to handling the certification was in poor taste but the airplane itself is fine.

Anyone who is a real aviator and has completed Max return to service training knows that unreliable airspeed leading to MCAS activation is easy to deal with.

10-15-2022 | 10:54 AM

#53

tallpilot

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From: A320 FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by FXLAX

I’ve never heard of anyone calling for secondary barriers on cargo aircraft.

ALPA has a call to action to get normal post 9-11 security doors on cargo aircraft but I'm not sure why. Anybody in the 'supernumary' area is CAS approved.

10-15-2022 | 11:01 AM

#54

tallpilot

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From: A320 FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dalulz

It's ten seconds from onset to an irrecoverable condition. WITH all the bells and whistles and shakers going off. Now, yeah, you're probably god's gift to aviation and would've "rolled it" like Denzel to save everyone. But for the rest of us, ten seconds isn't much.

10 seconds of high speed nose down trimming should be a pretty obvious problem. Yes the shaker makes it more distracting but there are multiple ways to stop the trim before it is unrecoverable. Runaway trim is always dangerous and always time critical.

10-15-2022 | 11:04 AM

#55

Texasbound

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dalulz

Thankfully not many are forced to be confined to a cockpit with you. Those that are... Well, I guess everyone needs to suffer once in a while. right back at you.

yes, I have had manually trim a 737 at all certified speeds. It is not easy but it is possible. It only be one impossible like was stated above VMO. Oh and at 420 it is impossible to move, like I said. Below that is is possible, for some.

10-15-2022 | 11:14 AM

#56

PNWFlyer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dalulz

10 seconds is an eternity. Do you wait 10 seconds to reject a takeoff over 100 knots? At any speed, no. Do you wait 10 seconds before putting you oxygen mask on? 10 seconds before applying rudder on a v1 cut? Don’t think so.

10-15-2022 | 04:48 PM

#57

Nantonaku

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Texasbound

Nothing is fun in the SIM.

Yes, they did determine there was a speed where you could not move the trim wheel. Its 420 knots. 70 knots above VMO and just shy on VNE.

Yes, people can be confused about movement and bells and whistles. Guess what isn't confusing? The amount of force I am having to use to keep the nose up, hey, why don't I trim those forces off? All you have to do is trim, trim overrides MCAS all day long. Just Like the Lion Air report stated.

Speaking of reports? Where is the Ethiopian report?

Back again for more Monday quarterbacking? And this conspiracy of them not releasing the official report! And my god that captain tried to turn on the AP multiple times! The horror. If only they had know the airplane was trying to kill them then maybe they could have saved themselves. We know, these non-US pilots are terrible. Never mind many are trained directly by Boeing.

10-15-2022 | 04:51 PM

#58

Nantonaku

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tallpilot

Why even train for it now, they fixed it didn’t they? What other gremlins are hiding in the plane that they haven’t told us about that we can’t train for?

10-15-2022 | 04:58 PM

#59

Nantonaku

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PNWFlyer

Bad analogies. Of course you don’t wait ten seconds when you know what is wrong. Maybe it is a little harder when you have no clue what is going on because there are multiple conflicting pieces of information? These things are not even remotely similar, sorry, terrible post. No doubt these guys in both crashes did a terrible job but come on, no one in the world trained or could even come up with this event let alone train for it. Pilots train yearly in rejecting takeoffs, V1 cuts and putting on an 02 mask.