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Old 07-20-2023 | 08:34 AM
  #461  
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The FAA Reauthorization Act has passed in the House with age 67 embedded in the bill.
Final vote: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023364

Here is the text in HR 3935 that applies to age 67:
EC. 330. AGE STANDARDS FOR PILOTS.Section 44729 of title 49, United States Code, is amended—
(1) in subsection (a)—

(A) by striking “Subject to the limitation in subsection (c), a” and inserting “A”; and

(B) by striking “65” and inserting “67”;

(2) in subsection (b)(1) by striking “; or” and inserting “, unless the operation takes place in airspace where such operations are not permitted; or”;

(3) by striking subsection (c) and redesignating subsections (d) through (h) as subsections (c) through (g), respectively;

(4) in subsection (c), as so redesignated—

(A) in the heading by striking “60” and inserting “65”;

(B) by striking “the date of enactment of this section,” and inserting “the date of enactment of the Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act,”;
(C) by striking “section 121.383(c)” and inserting “subsections (d) and (e) of section 121.383”; and

(D) by inserting “(or any successor regulations)” after “Regulations”;

(5) in subsection (d), as so redesignated—

(A) by striking paragraph (1) and inserting the following:

“(1) RETROACTIVITY.—A person who has attained 65 years of age on or before the date of enactment of the Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act may return to service as a pilot for an air carrier engaged in covered operations.”; and

(B) in paragraph (2) by striking “section, taken in conformance with a regulation issued to carry out this section, or taken prior to the date of enactment of this section in conformance with section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (as in effect before such date of enactment), may” and inserting “section or taken in conformance with a regulation issued to carry out this section, may”; and

(6) by adding at the end the following:“(h) Savings Clause.—An air carrier engaged in covered operations described in subsection (b)(1) on or after the date of enactment of the Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act may not require employed pilots to serve in such covered operations after attaining 65 years of age.”.

Here's a link to section 44729 of 49USC for those that want to see the changes made: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/44729
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Old 07-20-2023 | 08:44 AM
  #462  
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Originally Posted by Andy
The FAA Reauthorization Act has passed in the House with age 67 embedded in the bill.
Final vote: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2023364

Here is the text in HR 3935 that applies to age 67:
EC. 330. AGE STANDARDS FOR PILOTS.Section 44729 of title 49, United States Code, is amended—
(1) in subsection (a)—

(A) by striking “Subject to the limitation in subsection (c), a” and inserting “A”; and

(B) by striking “65” and inserting “67”;

(2) in subsection (b)(1) by striking “; or” and inserting “, unless the operation takes place in airspace where such operations are not permitted; or”;

(3) by striking subsection (c) and redesignating subsections (d) through (h) as subsections (c) through (g), respectively;

(4) in subsection (c), as so redesignated—

(A) in the heading by striking “60” and inserting “65”;

(B) by striking “the date of enactment of this section,” and inserting “the date of enactment of the Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act,”;
(C) by striking “section 121.383(c)” and inserting “subsections (d) and (e) of section 121.383”; and

(D) by inserting “(or any successor regulations)” after “Regulations”;

(5) in subsection (d), as so redesignated—

(A) by striking paragraph (1) and inserting the following:

“(1) RETROACTIVITY.—A person who has attained 65 years of age on or before the date of enactment of the Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act may return to service as a pilot for an air carrier engaged in covered operations.”; and

(B) in paragraph (2) by striking “section, taken in conformance with a regulation issued to carry out this section, or taken prior to the date of enactment of this section in conformance with section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (as in effect before such date of enactment), may” and inserting “section or taken in conformance with a regulation issued to carry out this section, may”; and

(6) by adding at the end the following:“(h) Savings Clause.—An air carrier engaged in covered operations described in subsection (b)(1) on or after the date of enactment of the Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act may not require employed pilots to serve in such covered operations after attaining 65 years of age.”.

Here's a link to section 44729 of 49USC for those that want to see the changes made: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/44729
How would this Retroactivity part work? They can come back sure, but as a new hire correct?
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Old 07-20-2023 | 09:07 AM
  #463  
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Originally Posted by El Peso
How would this Retroactivity part work? They can come back sure, but as a new hire correct?
May depend on the carrier.

It is only saying that if you reached 65 before the bill becomes law you can work for an operation that is required to abide by this rule as long as you are not 67 or older.

That is my interpretation.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 09:30 AM
  #464  
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Originally Posted by Andy
I don't know what ALPA has stated on this matter, but the original House bill is easy to look up. Ace66 claimed that Nehls sponsored the first age 67 bill in either house; that's incorrect.
It was the 117th Congress, HR 3038 (if you look up HR 3038 for the 118th Congress, you get a different bill)
Here's the link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...%5D%7D&s=2&r=2
This was the first bill introduced in the House to increase retirement age, dated 5/7/21. You can see that Nehls' name isn't attached to this bill as either the sponsor or a cosponsor.

This was 'repackaged' later in the 117th Congress as the 'Let Experienced Pilots Fly Act' which had parallel bills in both the House and Senate.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...%5D%7D&s=8&r=2
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...%5D%7D&s=8&r=1
These bills were introduced on 7/25 and 7/27/22, a little more than a year after Ferguson first sponsored the original bill. Note that Nehls was a cosponsor of the bill on the House side, but not the sponsor.
That bill never received a vote, correct? It was the previous Congress. Nehl first introduced Age 67 in THIS Congress - he filed the amendment in the T&I committee at the last minute. That bill made it through committee and was just voted on by the full House today.

Unless I'm mistaken above, you are arguing semantics: last Congress v this Congress.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 09:31 AM
  #465  
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Originally Posted by El Peso
How would this Retroactivity part work? They can come back sure, but as a new hire correct?
I posted this with the text just so everyone could see how poorly this is worded in current legislation. It really needs to be cleaned up. I'm waiting to see what comes out of the Senate on this issue; hopefully it's more detailed.

Even if ALPA doesn't get involved with cleaning up the language, there's still likely to be some inputs from the FAA and airlines to tighten up the language.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 09:35 AM
  #466  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
He would probably argue that he "consulted" with his brother, who's an experienced aviation professional. Elected reps can talk to people.

But for all we know his brother told him to keep it at 65, and he only went on record as a sponsor because he's on the committee. No way to know. Well I guess we'll know eventually, when/if his brother retires before age 65.

I actually have less issue with elected reps consulting citizens, friends, and family, as opposed to lobbyists who clearly have a bought and paid for agenda.
You are right, no one really knows what's in Nehl's head. But did he consult aviation medical professionals, airline finance experts, ALPA, NTSB, FAA, etc. before coming to a logical, thoughtful conclusion that Age 67 was going to "fix" whatever perceived problem we have today? Or did just talk to his brother?
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Old 07-20-2023 | 09:48 AM
  #467  
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Originally Posted by Ace66
That bill never received a vote, correct? It was the previous Congress. Nehl first introduced Age 67 in THIS Congress - he filed the amendment in the T&I committee at the last minute. That bill made it through committee and was just voted on by the full House today.

Unless I'm mistaken above, you are arguing semantics: last Congress v this Congress.
WHOA! You never stated 118th Congress. You stated that Nehls first introduced it in Congress.
Everyone familiar with this issue should know that it was first introduced in the 117th Congress. And hopefully most people know that unpassed bills die at the end of each Congress. The bills I referenced died at the end of the 117th Congress.
It is typical for bills that die in one session of Congress to be reintroduced in the next session. You seem to be suggesting that Nehls is the 'mastermind' of this legislation. I spent more than a couple of minutes posting the origin of this change.If you have proof to the contrary, post it rather than making baseless accusations.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 10:02 AM
  #468  
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Originally Posted by JackReacher
Lighten up Francis. You’ll give yourself an aneurysm.
The amount in career earnings lost every time they raise the age is staggering. Millions for me. I take it personally. I have no desire to fly to maximum retirement age. I would retire tomorrow if I could afford to. Everytime they raise the age, they prevent my forward progression and no I don’t chase the money. I enjoy life.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
The amount in career earnings lost every time they raise the age is staggering. Millions for me. I take it personally. I have no desire to fly to maximum retirement age. I would retire tomorrow if I could afford to. Everytime they raise the age, they prevent my forward progression and no I don’t chase the money. I enjoy life.
While I’m not happy about it it’s probably better than lowering entry level standards. Seems to get to some middle ground it’s one or the other. I flew with 250 hr pilots based in ewr early 2000’s in an rj. Not really wanting to do that again in an Airbus.
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Old 07-20-2023 | 10:51 AM
  #470  
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
Unbelievable. Greedy ****ing *******s. You already got an extra 5 years at my expense. Now you want another 2 years. Every time the retirement age is raised, the seniority list is virtually frozen for 2 years. You get your extra 2 years at whatever seat and seniority you are currently in. 67 year olds should not be flying airplanes. This nonsense has gone on long enough.


Don’t kid yourself. There are widebody captains with no life pushing to not retire. Greedy ****s.
Nonsense!

Widebody captains at major airlines have fantastic lives.
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